BellaStrega

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also, Twilight Grasp has an end cost of 15 while Transfusion only costs 7.5. So I don't think we're getting off scot free here

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I think if the two are healing the same amount that they're pretty much balanced. Paying twice the end cost for a damage + accuracy debuff vs. Transfusion's endurance drain seems fair to me.

I don't think it's fair to call TG overpowered because the fluffies use it.

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Like I said before, it's much easier to position yourself for a heal than it is to position an enemy. It's far easier to run up to tankers/scrappers and cast twilight grasp than it is to get controllers, defenders or blasters to run up to an enemy to cast transfusion. When blasters are getting hurt, they tend to run, rather than rush forward into more danger in hopes for a heal.

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If only this were completely true. Like I said, I often have blasters running away from me as soon as I run next to them and start casting. When the animation ends, they're either defeated or far away and resting when they could have easily refilled a significant portion of their health bar just by not moving. The same problem with transfusion seems to apply here, at least in my experience.

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As of right now, transfusion and twilight grasp heal for the same ammount (at least, I've heard. If not, they're damned close.) Seems fair at a glance, but twilight grasp is far easier to use to heal your team than transfusion. To heal with transfusion, allies have to be near the target, which for blasters and other ranged characters, is exactly where they don't want to be. To use twilight grasp, you need A target, but it doesn't have to be near allies, as the heal eminates from you as opposed to the enemy. It's far easier to position yourself for a good heal as opposed to positioning your enemies.

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Transfusion has a one-second activation time, has an accuracy bonus, and costs 7.5 endurance. Twilight Grasp has a three-second activation time (reduced from its former four-second activation), has no accuracy bonus, and costs 15 endurance. It's my experience that it's easier to get a heal on someone with Transfusion because you can hit the villain closest to the characters who need healing and the heal will go off very quickly. With Twilight Grasp, as I mentioned before, if someone runs out of your radius (it happens to me all the time, with experienced players who know how Twilight Grasp works) they don't get healed. Further, if I need to heal the tanker (something that does happen), I have to get very close to melee range with a lot of dangerous evil. My darkest night is handy, and does mitigate a lot of damage, but I have been defeated trying to heal tankers before and probably will be again. So. no, it's not necessarily easier to pull off the heal. Having played both Kinetics and Dark, I'd say both have drawbacks.

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Secondly, not only is it easier to pull off the heal, but dark servants ALSO pull off the heal, meaning that there is a high chance to heal multiple times, as many times as you have pets out. It may be a weaker heal, but it is by no means pathetic. I teamed with a Lv40 dark defender last night who's heal was doing near 700points, while her pets did about 250 each. See where I'm coming from yet?

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On the other hand, Kinetics can instantly refill an entire team's endurance bars and use the final power to put everyone at the damage cap. I can summon some pets who spam random heals, holds, and immobilizes. While they're helpful, I don't think it's fair to ask that the set's basic heal be nerfed because of the set's final power. You're approaching this as if everything else is equal, and everything else is not.

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I think that transfusion, even a controllers tranfusion, should heal signifficantly more than a dark defenders. To be honest, I think a dark defenders heal should be weakened signifficantly. Why? Not only is it very powerful right now, and easier to use than transfusion, but dark servants ALSO cast it. A dark defender casts it, gets a good 500+ heal, then two or more dark servants cast it, huzzah, two or more +200 heals! Don't you think this is even a -little- unfair?

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Well, if it were auto-hit, and everyone who's standing near me when I start using the power gets the benefit of the heal, then, yes, it'd be unfair. However, it's very easy - and common - for people to run away during the three-second cast, which means I've just spent three seconds spending endurance and not accomplishing anything. Never mind, of course, the number of times that I've been defeated in the middle of the animation because I can't stop to do something else, like get away.

Of all the things one might point to in Dark Miasma as overpowered, Twilight Grasp is close to the bottom of my list. There's no need to reflexively insist that every aspect of the set is overpowered.

Statesman, I've played on both sides of a defender (played one, teamed with them). What I often encountered was:

* Teamed with a defender, I found my characters could do stuff they already could do before, but faster and better. Defenders in this situation didn't feel useful at all. I've also found I could do things that I could not do otherwise due to buffs or debuffs.

* Teamed as a defender, I find that on large teams, say with two AoE blasters and a tanker (along with four others), I have almost enough time to lay Darkest Night and Tar Patch before one of the blasters hits inferno - often, I lay one debuff before it happens. Outside inferno, stuff still dies very quickly, but it's hard to tell how helpful the debuffs are when the fight's over so quickly.

However, in both circumstances, the defender is making a difference, it just doesn't always feel that way. People see the green numbers that defenders generate, and the larger orange numbers that Fortitude, Accelerate Metabolism, Tar Patch, Enervating Field, and Freezing Rain generate. They're less likely to notice how useful force fields are since an attack that doesn't hit and get healed is sort of out of sight, out of mind.

Anyway, I'm not saying that it's all perception, but I think there is a strong element of perception at work.

Edit to add: I've also been in situations where a controller's healers are just plain superior to mine. I play a Dark Miasma defender, and the heals in question were kinetics. I know that Twilight Grasp has a pretty substantial heal and that Transfusion isn't far off from it. I'm not saying that there should never be an occasion when a Controller can outheal a defender, but it does seem that controller secondaries are very close to defender primaries in capability.

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BINGO! The goal of the Epic Archetypes is NOT to reflect paradigms that already exist, but rather to create a gameplay experience that reflects the City of Heroes mythology.

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I know this was said long, long ago, but I wanted to comment that playing my Peacebringer puts me in mind of two actual comic book groups:

Heralds of Galactus
The Green Lantern Corps.

Not necessarily in specific powers (the Heralds are all different, and I don't see a peacebringer creating giant fists o' energy, but still). Not necessarily in power level, either. Just the feel. The sense of what the Kheldians are like.

Heck, on the GL side, how many Kheldians have a variant on the "merged with a dying Kheldian?" origin?

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Anyway, I think the major religions have lost the idea of the psychopomp... hmm, wait a tic, I wonder if Uriel counts as a psychopomp? Isn't he the angel of death?

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He might qualify as a psychopomp, depending on what you might believe he does.

It's interesting how popular Neil Gaiman's "Death" character was/is.

The Hellions and Skulls have a nice conclusion to their arc with Bonefire. Trolls and Outcasts do okay in the Hollows. The Family and the Warriors really don't get much of their own. The Tsoo, too, could use a nice conclusion (we need to fight Tub Ci someday).

But this is all off-topic - I agree with you.

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Hrmm, this might be off topic, but, if statesman is zeus incarnate and whatnot, then, wouldn't he use his powers to make the mortals (players) happy? Or would he rather teach mortals (players) that he is has more power than us and shows it (nerfs)? I'd say the second appears to be showing, but hopefully it's more of a balance, since devs and possible deities do tend to mess up and try to correct their mistakes (hopefully), since, if a deity pisses too many mortals off, they'd quit worshipping said deity, same could be said of devs and gamers, but, I don't see how statesman could be zeus incarnate, (ingame character wise, the character statesman, not the person in real life), considering what happened in the May comic book, or it could point towards how every deity can fall (either by being forgotten or dying).... maybe I'm just getting everything wrong that I've said this entire post, I hope I am, except for balancing and making people happy in the long run.

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When talking about the Greek deities, it helps to understand that worship is appeasement, not always adoration. If Zeus did something to hurt his worshippers, then they'd better work twice as hard to keep it from happening again. It's probably their fault.

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Can I pat myself on the back for knowing what it means?

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Sure.

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Anyway, I'm interested in the answer to this. Arawn definitely applies but he did say Manannan Mac Lir, which is the Irish version of the name. Arawn is one of the Welsh psychopomps so his expected answer might be different.

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I just wanted to compliment you on slipping the word "psychopomp" into relatively casual conversation.

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*looks up Arwan. Can't find anything about an island*

My ancestory is Norse, so I don't know much about Celtic stuff.

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Arawn, Celtic god of death. He's a rather neutral fellow, doesn't deal much in mortal affairs.

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It is true that he's Welsh mainly, the Lord of Annwn.

I have no recollection of where I encountered the island bit, though.

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I live on an island that's so far out at sea that noone, not even Manannan mac Lir, can find it while living! Who am I?

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Arawn.

Is now a bad time to mention my teenaged obsession with Celtic mythology?

Happy birthday, then.

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A heroic level mission no longer contains a Boss level mob.

That kinda ends that debate. Moving along now.

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Well, solo, anyway.

It's all kinds of fun to do an 8-person mission on Heroic, running into three bosses per spawn, and finally getting to the mission boss, who is a lt.

There was a dialogue?

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5. (stolen idea) Give each single target attack a -10% res that lasts 5 seconds. This not only helps boost the blasters damage a minute amount but also allows the blaster to help a team. Thus encouraging teaming.

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This is exactly what these "Damage Kings" need. Please put it in to play. Sure as a bit of a debuff it steps on the feet of defenders, but I really don't think they'll mind too much. It helps them in the long run.

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I suspect that while it looks good on paper, the result will resemble what happened with a similar trick they tried for tankers - which is to say, it wouldn't get implemented past internal testing.

It's not just scrappers who get fixated on minions. My scrapper - being DM/DA - benefits a great deal from having multiple minions nearby (Cloak of Fear to make them cower, Soul Drain to boost my damage/accuracy, dark regeneration to heal, dark consumption to recover endurance).

I've duo'd Neuron with an MA/SR scrapper while the tanker we brought along to, you know, tank Neuron, ran around and methodically defeated every single minion in the room (and it was a big room) before coming back to see what we were doing...and then protested that he didn't know we were fighting the AV (despite, I dunno, team chat that went, "There's the AV, everyone ready?" and getting "ready" in response).

I'm not even talking about AoEs taking out the minions first, I mean, literally, people will use their single-target attacks to obsessively wipe out all the minions before touching the bosses or AVs, even when specifically asked to leave them be.

Mind you, it's not like I'm going to get debt or anything because my batteries are all dead before the boss is, but, come on...

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Revolution, I'm proving you wrong with the biggest fact of all: I'm here.

Before CoH, I was a Mac user who only really played PS2 games. Because of CoH, I bought a PC, a graphic card, and have been here for over a year ever since.

So no, you're wrong. Very wrong.

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Since Revolution is probably reading my posts anyway,

I've never played an MMORPG before City of Heroes. I'd expected ever since hearing of it that it would be the game to break my resolve to not play them. I've brought more than a few friends into the game who also did not play MMORPGs either.

I don't think we're exceptions.

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You've joined zzMDude on my ignore list...have a nice day.

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Oh noes, I've been publicly ignore-listed! How will I ever live down the shame?

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Of course, you're right.

And since that statement is about as geniune as any of yours in the previous quote, would you now kindly just go away since you got what you wanted?

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I don't believe you have the ability to be that genuine around here.

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You're right Kali. About everything. You win.

Now wander off and wrap yourself up in your "I'm always right" blanket and be cool.

Because its quite obvious you'll twist everything I say to make yourself seem right.

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What, you mean I'll do something like quote where you attacked one of my arguments, and then try to turn it around so that it sounds like you actually attacked me?

Well, I don't need to do that, because you have actually attacked me (called me a troll several times, for example, simply for disagreeing with you).

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And I'm not going to disagree with you any more because having a one sided argument is pointless.

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It almost looked like you caught on to the fatal flaw in your conversation, but then you say...

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There are people in the thread making valid contributions and as you can see..I am actively discussing various subjects with them.

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...and it becomes clear you're still on an imaginary page.

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You aren't doing much other than stroking your own ego, and really, that kind of thing should be done in private. Don't you think?

Ta now.

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I'm making jokes, quoting Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, and pointing out that your doomsaying is silly.

Believe me, the ability to best you in an argument is not grounds for anyone to puff up their own ego.

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Well, I tried to work it in, but I simply could not communicate the sheer bozosity involved.

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Now I realize bozosity isn't actually a word. But are you really going to try to get off on a technicality here?

Bozosity, indicating that everything in the post was written by a bozo..ergo, I am a bozo.

Bozo = clown, or someone not taken seriously, or someone that is seen to be mentally inferior or absolutely dumb.

So thusly you've called me a stupid idiot. Simply because you disagree with what I have to say.


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That's a bit of a stretch, unless every single criticism of every single argument ever is by definition extended to the arguer's person as well. I mean, I'm sure you believe that about responses to your argument. That you had to take four sentences to change what I said into something different is pretty sad.

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Now. Was there anything else you needed cleared up? Shall I draw you a picture?

And your memory of the resignation post aside, community impression of what I had to say doesn't change the fact that the post was respectfully written, did not descend into screaming and temper tantrums (well at least until you folks got involved) and regardless of how disrespectful you choose to maintain calling for someones resignation was...it doesn't change the fact that the post itself was very respectful and well written, rounding out my thoughts and feelings on the overall change.

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And whether or not it was respectfully written (something that I don't think anyone here is going to buy), you completely undermined it by demanding that Geko give up his job. You must be a riot when they get your order wrong at Burger King.

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And you just keep clinging to that "partially" rolled back explanation.

I sure don't seem to have any problems with purples today. Sort of feels like old times to me.

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Because the numbers are not the same as they were before the purple patch? The point at which it becomes nearly impossible to fight villains is not at the point where they con as purple, but is lower than where it was pre-patch. That's what "partially rolled back" means in this context.

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What else would you like me to correct you on Kali? Feel free, I've got plenty of time.

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"What else" implies anything has been corrected so far. If you were even half as informed as you pretend to be, we wouldn't be having these conversations.

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Debuffs definitely would've been the way...

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I agree.

I do think the way -regen debuffs work currently is way over the top, though. Surely there's a middle ground (take Ascendants, for example).

Well, I tried to work it in, but I simply could not communicate the sheer bozosity involved.

Well, Revolution_Pr0 came back for the "five days to try the game out again" thing...and posted DOOOOM in the CoV forum.

Wow...just...wow. "CoV is doooooomed because you can't make heroes into villains or villains into heroes right at release."