BellaStrega

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I did. Reread the posts about the requirements I'm asked to do. Take this power, that power, fill up on insps, and get a team. All for one power because one melee can barely touch it by itself. A little too many "requirements" for overcome one power.

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I'd actually be able to empathize with this arguement if a Storm Defender could kill a Regener, even one locked into a corner.

I've had my claws/regen locked into a corner by a stormer who focused on her attacks, and still couldn't kill me within fifteen minutes, just because of integration and reconstruction. I'd hate to think what slotted IH could do.

If not having the right powers meant an instant loss, sure, then we'd have a problem. But as it is, Stormers aren't going to be 'always win' characters. They tend toward stalemates in solo.

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If it was that time with Tribal Boogie, Boogie wasn't even slotted for damage. I told him he was a big old stupidhead, and he refused to fight me over it. I remember telling him he was required to get freezing rain and stuff.

Although, you're probably not talking about him because you mentioned actually using Integration.

Cut knockback suppression to 5 seconds. Make PVP kb effects linger for a second or two so they're easier to stack.

Repel suppression isn't really necessary.

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scrappers!

BAH!

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Also, I'm on your side here: Hurricane doesn't need to be nerfed.

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oh.

what are we arguing about then?



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Nuttin'.

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scrappers!

BAH!

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Also, I'm on your side here: Hurricane doesn't need to be nerfed.

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SILLY SCRAPPER!

TRIXX ARE FOR KIDS!

by denying yourself the dark epic you're throwing away (yes, wasting) your shot at:

1) a ranged (undebuffable by hurricane) hold
2) a ranged (undebuffable by hurricane) attack
3) a ranged (undebuffable by hurricane) immobilize

all of which are very effective against the DREAD STORM DEFENDER!!!

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In exchange, I get:

the ability to ignore hurricane to-hit debuffs
a ranged (undebuffable by hurricane) attack that debuffs defense
a ranged (undebuffable by hurrcane) cone attack that knocks down.
infinite endurance upon demand

I also seem to have an emp glove and stun grenades on my power bar. I wonder how those got there...

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seriously, why deny yourselves PVP glory like this, when it's right there...WITHIN YOUR GRASP!?

yes, YOU TOO can defeat a storm defender.

yes, you, you 97 lb weaklings!

take your i7 respec and be the first on your block to mop the floor with your local storm bully.

that'll be the last time he kicks sand in your face.

so THERE!



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Don't try to trick me into an overkill control build with your wily words!

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wow, that's a lot of toggles.

lemme see if i can whittle that down a bit...

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That's DA.

My DA currently has:

DE, MC, OS, CoD, Death Shroud, Oppressive Gloom, Combat Jumping, Acrobatics, Focused Accuracy

And yes, I can run all nine and still fight.

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here!

i've never played a scrapper, but i've just designed one to destroy storm defenders.

use your ranged hold for teh win!

unless a storm defender has mez protection (from someone else), he'll go down like a sack of turds.

if you're fighting a */storm controller, however...well that's another story.

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ick, I hate triple-D scrappers. I've done my time playing one, and body mastery 4tw. I'll live with finding another way to deal with the Hurricane on my Dark/Dark. Besides, Pet Gaze doesn't exist in three of four PVP zones and you won't even fight it in two prior to defection.

For the record:

- Whirlwind needs no nerfs.

- KB Protection is a bit too good in PVP, but that accounts for acrobatics as well as melee status protection. I'm not really in favor of reducing it if I get pinballed around by Council or Nemesis as a consequence. I mean, a filthy Council vampyr knocked me down with shadow punch the other day (misreported in PM to Blueeyed as a spectral daemon, but so many things knock me down any random guess will probably be right).

- Anyone who skips Cobra Strike in MA deserves everything that happens to them in PVP.

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my shot was not cheap.

it was a good, clean shot.

so there!

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Oh, yeah? How much did it cost you?

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Cobra Strike is the power MA Regen's don't take.

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I've never understood this. Why is that?

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Because they don't like making lieutenants harmless whenever necessary.

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You have phase shift. While phased, you can not be repeled, can not have your accuracy debuffed. If you que up a brawl before dephasing, you can easily hit a Stormer. If you actually got one of the better powers in your primary, you could que up a MEZ and instantly detoggle a Stormer.

If you had Teleport, you could port in with an attack qued and have the same thing happen. It's how my Warshade Sunless Mires off Storm Shaman.

There, you can run up and punch a stormer. Happy?

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/bind g "powexec_name brawl$$powexec_toggleoff phase shift"

You'll shut off phase shift and brawl immediately afterward. No discernable pause between actions.

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i seriously think that if the devs set the attack range floor to 5 feet (or whatever) everything would be fine.

hurricane would be good, but not overpowered.

ranged aoes could still be used.

melee classes could still use melee attacks.

and the devs could finally get around to allowing hurricane to properly debuff the ranged attacks for melee classes instead of this cheap bandaid-fix we have now.

yes, i'm sick of getting ganked by spines scrappers, what can i say?



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While I did say that a range floor would be a good change, I will only agree to it if lightning storm loses its cheap bandaid toggle droppers...

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i thought this was about hurricane.

start your own thread, dood!



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Hey, I can't respond to cheap shots about cheap bandaids with cheap shots about other cheap bandaids?

Besides, I already had my own thread about this a few months ago. I don't want another one.

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Hurricane by itself isn't an "I Win" power by ANY stretch of the imagination. You just have to use your imagination to come up with ways your character can overcome it.

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Please dwell on this more. How would say a */Regen, */DA, or a */SR scrapper be able to overcome it?

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You're kidding me, right? Aside from the fact that some melee powersets get repel resistant powers, the rest of you can just queue up an attack as you jump in. The attack hits before the debuff or repel hits you, and the stormer is down half their health. Since stormer's don't have a self heal it's all but over at that point.

I can NOT believe that a melee type has the freakin' audacity to come into a squishy forum and whine about PvP. Defenders, with the lone exception of stormers, are the easiest targets in PvP. Everyone knows it, and you have the brass to come in here and kvetch about the ONE defender powerset that gives you grief. And on top of that you're too lazy to take the 10 seconds to figure out how to beat it yourself.

Well there's your freebie, now go back to the Scrapper forum and whine about how /Regen was nerfed some more.

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Well, it's good that you held the high ground and didn't try to discredit his position on the basis of what kind of characters he might play or something.

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Oh, I don't mind knockback protection. It just should only protect you from, you know Hurricane OR Freezing Rain OR Gale OR Tornado OR Lightning Storm OR even a combination of a couple of the above. But all of them at the same time?

Losing toggledroppers just to get some mild protection from Spines scrappers (possibly for an entire 10 seconds after they immoblize me from 30 yards) isn't exactly my idea of a fair trade.

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Spines, Claws, all EPPs.

Also protection for ranged ATs from having attacks reduced to range zero, which would affect PVE against at least three villain groups (Cabal, Banished Pantheon, Tsoo). In exchange, you lose a broken mechanic intended for a particular type of play only a minority of the playerbase goes near...

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Fine with me, as soon as melee characters lose that cheap band-aid complete immunity to knockback despite a lightning bolt, a gale, a hurricane, and a tornado.

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No, sorry, just trading the range debuff for the toggle-dropping. Getting rid of actual mechanics built into the game (as opposed to mechanics implemented to bypass engine limitations) seems like it should be a bit more expensive.

Heck, getting rid of knockback protection would get me to leave permanently, right along with removing Stamina.

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i seriously think that if the devs set the attack range floor to 5 feet (or whatever) everything would be fine.

hurricane would be good, but not overpowered.

ranged aoes could still be used.

melee classes could still use melee attacks.

and the devs could finally get around to allowing hurricane to properly debuff the ranged attacks for melee classes instead of this cheap bandaid-fix we have now.

yes, i'm sick of getting ganked by spines scrappers, what can i say?



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While I did say that a range floor would be a good change, I will only agree to it if lightning storm loses its cheap bandaid toggle droppers...

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Oh come on, it's not like this exact strategy is not constantly proposed and occasionally executed at scrappers and tankers. Why stop now?

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You're right. The train is too beautiful and too full of delicious iron to stop now.

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Exactly!

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Seriously, I haven't pvp'd much at all with my storm, but I don't want my pve defenses to be destroyed because someone couldn't think of a sensible solution to a problem I'm not even sure is much of an issue.

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Oh come on, it's not like this exact strategy is not constantly proposed and occasionally executed at scrappers and tankers. Why stop now?

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I believe either Rooted or Granite Armor allows you to ignore repel. Not really sure which.

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The point being that only DA, FA, and Ninjitsu don't have the KB protection that Acrobatics fills, which does not make it a useful way to avoid kb on EA, Regen, Invuln, or Stone - who do protect against KB.

This isn't necessarily a problem, but it does make such advice kind of suspect as to its quality.

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One of the directions the developers are trying to take this game is that different team make-ups will not have counters to every negative thing in the game. They are trying to do that in anycase or at least trying to make it as hard as possible to have teams that have counters to everything.

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I'm not really arguing that they need to all have repel resistance, to be honest. There are ways around the repel thing even if you can't stop it, after all.

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I believe either Rooted or Granite Armor allows you to ignore repel. Not really sure which.

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The point being that only DA, FA, and Ninjitsu don't have the KB protection that Acrobatics fills, which does not make it a useful way to avoid kb on EA, Regen, Invuln, or Stone - who do protect against KB.

This isn't necessarily a problem, but it does make such advice kind of suspect as to its quality.

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Ture, but Acrobatics does provide Knockback resistance, and as long as you're on your feet, you can activate OTHER powers. ^_^ Like MoG, or other -Repel defense powers.

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MoG, Unyielding, Entropy Shield.

Any others?

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Hurricane by itself isn't an "I Win" power by ANY stretch of the imagination. You just have to use your imagination to come up with ways your character can overcome it.

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Please dwell on this more. How would say a */Regen, */DA, or a */SR scrapper be able to overcome it?

I know Blasters can, if they try. What about Stalkers? All but Energy Armor will have a hard to to overcome this problem.

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/Regen, Stalker and Scrapper alike: Get acrobatics. Team with someone who has the right use-on-ally powers. Use MoG.

/DA Scrapper: Get acrobatics. Team with someone who has the right use-on-ally powers. Turn on Oppressive Gloom and try to (super)jump so that you land right next to the Hurricane-user, and hope for the best.

/SR, Stalker and Scrapper alike: Get acrobatics. Team with someone who has the right use-on-ally powers. Use Practised Bralwer.

/Nin Stalkers: as /SR, except it's Kuji-in-Rin instead of Practised Brawler.

... you were saying?

And no, none ofthe above is perfect - nor SHOULD it be. But they certainly make Hurricane a non-assured-and-guaranteed "easy button".

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Acrobatics does not provide repel resistance.

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You can lose the smirk. The myriad changes to MoG and IH -started- before the revised "giant monster" system. After that, continued nerfs occured because Regen scrappers were effectively tanking on invincible, and were distincitvely more effective at PvP then other builds. Each nerf was a little more questionable then the ones prior to it, because each time Regen was a little less absurd, but back when it all started, a solid regen build was pretty much unkillable.

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Which of course justifies making hyperbolic complains about what they were capable of in, say, issue 5.

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IH and MoG were nerfed because regen scrappers were SOLOING +3 MONSTERS.

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I would love to see someone with MoG solo a +3 Monster... if there are any..

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This must've happened in issue 2.

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Given the nerfing that was given to Regen with IH and MoG along with Phase Shift and Kheldian's Quantum Flight, these were certainly PvP nerfs. I fully expect you to nerf hurricane which is needed. Also fix the toggle droppers. Hurricane and things like that should be made Clickies like IH was with long recharge times(to be fair). I'd leave Stalker's Hide alone though. They are pretty weak without Hide and since you can buy IR goggles in a zone if your side is doing well along with all the leadership powers tossed on, this should be adequate.

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Stalkers are very binary. They're either killing someone or they are dying.

However, they're one of the few (the only?) AT in the game that can essentially be "good" in PvP with only 2 powers. I'm not sure that's fair. A lot of people need to carefully consider their whole build to be strong at PvP, but stalkers get by pretty well with just 2 powers.

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Wrong.

They all have Hide. Since Hide is the basis of their offense and defense, it's one.

They all get Assassin Strike, because it benefits the most from Hide. This is two.

They all get Placate, because it gives the chance for a second critical or an escape.

They get other attacks so that when they don't one-shot someone, they can chain more attacks to finish them off.

They get defenses so that they a) can survive combat and b) aren't easily knocked out of Hide when they're spotted. Every secondary has multiple powers for this.

Some get Stealth for stacking to be more difficult to spot.

They need a travel power to get around.

Saying they only need two powers to function in PVP is not even wrong.