B_Witched
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Originally Posted by Dahjee
Real PvP happens whenever, wherever, and however Real PvP'ers choose to PvP. I apologize if this statement is too deep for you to understand. Arena is just a place that allows for Real PvP... Zone is another. Each zone and every combination of settings and maps in arena offer another place that allows the same.
I agree that regardless of the examples given, you all do seem to give responses based soley on an 8 vs 8 line up. While it is frustrating to try and make a point when dealing with peeps that can only look at things from one single perspective... I understand how doing things the same way and taking such pride in doing so... can make one defensive and unwilling to consider other perspectives. I remain patient, and do my best to stay polite.
I have nothing against arena, but I'm not a fan of the idea that somehow High-End competetive PvP is also the PvP that offers the least ammount of challenge, requires only the simplest AT builds to reach the deisired goal, and encourages the opposite of what the initial I13 changes were about. I'm 100% certain that those who lead such arena leagues and arena events could do better if they allowed themselves to consider a perspective beyond their current one.
I have no doubt that things have been tried... that some things have worked for you and others and some things have not... that even as we speak, in-game there are very smart and very skilled PvP'ers getting results from combintaions considered useless by the masses... but I'm no fool. There is a diference between providing guides and posting builds. They provide and promote two different things. If you have trouble figuring out the difference, let me know.
I am aware of the fact you all dodge and ignore me when I point out that effectiveness varies depending on the situation, team purpose, enviroment, etc... that your idea and definition of what has been "proven" effective is based on the settings and situations you test them under, and that competing under the same set of rules for long periods of time will surely reduce the possibility of playstyle options and diversity regardless of the ruleset. When you all are ready to discuss these issues as a community, let me know.
Sure. OK. You have a preference. It's your 15 bucks a month... and you have a place and a way to escape the TS and HD that you find un fun. You cannot have it both ways though. You cannot preach about Real PvP... and High End competetive PvP that requires whatever levels of PvP skill this game offers and also say it happens on the simple basis of fun and ease of play.
We're going in circles. When you can't turn to the numbers to base your argument on... you turn to "fun" as subjective as it is... and expect me to beleive that your fun is dependant on the system. This is the part where I'd explain that the system and powers/sets wthin are bound to change as it has so often in the past... and that one'e enjoyment of PvP can be based on doing well within the system, whatever it may be... as we have done so often in the past. This of course, is when you all turn back to the numbers.
Hey Guys. I'm not a troll, and I'm not trolling. What's funny is that I'm probably the only one in this thread that's been on topic from the start considering the OP was referring to the boards with their "How sad it is" title. My points revolve around these PvP forums... the sad state that they are in at the moment, what has caused it, and how to improve in the future. Without me in this thread, like almost every other new thread in the last 2 months here, it would have died having the same 6 people in agreement, using the same bad jokes with the same whiny attitude. I'm almost doing you all a favor by showing up. Your welcome btw. I hot threads, troll trolls, and given the oppourtunity... offer conversations that provide meaningful insight to newbies and veterans alike. I do so without raging or taking things personal.
Simply put... because they were PvP changes... designed for gameplay based on players fighting other players. General questions often beg for general answers B_Wtched. Would you like to elaborate or even specify which changes you are refferring to?
Happy 2011!
hmm no they were changed to the game mechanics...that affected pvp..the goal was to encourage pvers to enter and have fun in pvp. It would seem these changes have been deemed successful as they have not been reversed. I would argue that pve is too easy and why it does not attract pvers. How much more fun would it be if you could not spam heals, lock down avs, not have 75% res, have your powers supress you. It would be much more challenging and encourage pve.. -
tru dat vex, just thinking 6 is on a high end where you potentially get to many good players on one team - then even with a bad position in a draft you potentially end up with 4 more good players and 4 meebies...
With core of 4 - there is a higher potential the people you pick are people who you want to play with maybe not all the people you want to play with..but at least 3 - and draft rounds you pick up people you think are good or have potential.
Even if you go draft (which i am sure you would not Vex :P - ) odds are there are at least two teams you would want to be on and play with..
reason I say 4 over 6 is - 4 is a good solid base for a team - beyond playing with friends or whomever - but still puts you at a place where you have to build and use others for a solid 8v8. 6 not so much if you have 4 good blasters and 2 good healers - all you are really worried about at that point is getting people who either are decent at either or have stalkers to hide on..(i realize i am generalizing)..
but...u am right -- at least see if people can pull together multiple teams of 6 first.. -
Quote:okay so lets pretend you know everything and we are all dumb, wrong and stupid, programmed and living in a box we cannot escape..Originally Posted by Dahjee
So... let me get this straight....
The only viable PvP is the kind where you remove npcs, take away temp powers, make sure the odds are even, control the use of insps, change the settings of standard PvP to allow for heal spamming, turn off travel suppression, and more often than not... fight on an enclosed map?
Really? How long have you been playing that same way B Witched? A year now? Since I13? Since your initial programming? Sad.
Since the two you are basically saying the same thing I'll make just one reply.
You toss around words like "proven" and "tested" where they do not apply... and while this would normally make me laugh... I cry a little on the inside because I know you believe the things you've been told to be absolutely true. What's sadder, is that you base all these tests off the same controlled settings, done in the past, secretly I suppose because the feedback never makes it to the boards to be discussed. I'm guessing you can only recall of maybe one time, or this one team who tried this or that... and their failure to be effective in your eyes was enough beleive that no other team or persons could make it work.
You still cannot escape the idea of effectiveness outside of a 10 min arena win match. Neither of you could even seperate "Effective Slows" from an "Effective 8 v 8 line-up." Neither seem to be able to grasp the notion that effectiveness varies depending on a number of things, and the effectiveness you cling to is the result of clinging to the same damn way of doing things. It's whatever though. I know what I'm dealing with here... I have no desire to changed a fixed opinion. My desire is to open up the discussion... Slowly things have improved here on the boards, but still much to do. I do not know where either of you have heard me say that "I am the ONLY one who understands" so I would appreciate it if you got off of that. Pointing out that others have misunderstood is not the same thing.
then tell us oh wise one, why is it the changes in i13 - to pvp, 6 issues later have never and will never make it to pve? -
Quote:Originally Posted by CriticalKat
Just a thought Dex. Maybe there are people interested in or at least willing to Captain but don't have 4-8 people they feel are decent they can get for their core group. Maybe start discussing giving some type of pick order priority for teams that form but don't have the core roster filled before hand?
why I suggested core of 4 - if you can't get 4 then you should just go to draft - more talent in the pool. 8 is hard to get these days..4 not so much. honestly giving preference to teams to pick because they could not get 4 would not be a good idea...basically if you could not get 3 people you want to be your core, how willing would a first draft pick be to show up? -
depends what you want to do - I know people who have done pretty well in 1v1 with an emp psi..but if you want a viable team toon then yah all the emp powers - res - you can go several routes - with fitness inherant you can use the ranged dmg powers to boost your hp or take the medicine pool and boost your +heal...it's pretty easy to build now with the fitness inherent.
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no res is king - dom pff is okay not what it used to be - you would have to carry greens and run/pop. Sleet and pr are both great for dropping res/def but the res sheilds are crap. Hoarfrost also good for capped HP if you are going for a cheaper build but then it's recharge would be a problem.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Daknah
This league's format will be decided by the people. Captains and people that would like to make input will all get together on vent or mumble(preferred) and discuss what is best
Yeah I tossed this idea around and if we dont get enough teams signed up then this was the route I was going down. Teams will be stacked no matter what the starting size is I mean come on do you really think Vex and I are going to split up?
I think the biggest thing that I am going to push for with the other captains is that we do each team plays each other once since every previous league has died out just after the halfway point so hey lets cut the length of the league in half. Then once we finish this 6-8 week league we start another, I know its crazy but it just might work.
split up dex and vex? whatttt??? nah just with a 4 man base team the talent gets spread out more evenly, and you can still meet a 6v6 min requirement for matches. If you plan a shorter run for 8 weeks then 8 teams you be a needin. So with my l337 math skilz - that is 32 base players and the rest draft. Not a hard number to meet.. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Daknah
As the champion pvp league is coming to an end it is time to move on to greener pastures. A server that has 0 zone population cannot sustain a pvp league. Freedom with its 8v8v8 kickballs is by far the best choice.
I am looking for people to help me set up some rules. Right now I'm leaning towards 6 man rosters pre draft and then draft 8 people per team giving 14 man rosters and do 8v8 matches. If I cant get enough people to step up and lead a team then we might have to go with 4 man rosters pre draft. People that do not want to captain but would like to have their ideas expressed should contact me so we cant set up a time to hammer out the details of this new league.
There will not be 5000 rules for this league there will be simple rules that have been proven in the past so yeah dont expect me to post some 11.3.4.6 No using follow on an emp.
After the league is started it will be purely captain regulated.
Captains step up and start forming teams of people you want to play with. This will be the easiest league ever to captain in so dont be shy.
dex might i suggest 4 man pre pick teams - 4 man would ensure no argument of stacking - leave a decent crop of people to be drafted along with new folks and make it easier to get captains. Yah it would suck not to get to play with everyone you like or want to but you at least get a core and hopefully pick up people u do like or want and some new guys..might also make it a lot more even and therfore fun. No one wants to lose but no one wants to show up and get rolled..at least the first go round, if it's a success you can look to do 6 or even 8 core but right of the bat I think you would end up with 2-3 teams that are going to roll the other teams. If you make core of 4 Lib and another dUmbie could do two teams right there...and so on.
For points ,if you even want them, I would say best out of three winner gets 1 loser gets 0. So if you win two in a row, no third match unless you want to do it for fun. Ties are re fights so no bringing draw teams.
just sum idears. -
lol triumph.
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post i13 is broken - period. Others have said it before - I will say it again - if such a success and not breaking whole ats and power sets - why is it we do not have HD/TS/DR in pve? Simple because pver's would lose de f.n. minds if they had to deal with it. The basic principle of Castle screwing pvp was to make it easier for pvers to pvp....Yeah that worked. Most of the people who pvp'ed left, none of these new pvers filled the void...and here is you "if I can get 8 /ice blasters to shiver you...oh boy look out.."
Ever go to RV? I only go in if I can team with people i know. 90% of the people in there think spike was a character on buffy the vampire slayer and fort is a cool place you make out of sheets. Most of the time it is people crying about KM and can't wait for it to get nerfed, or stalkers and sharks or just constant base camping.
The only viable pvp is going on in arenas (champ league, freedom league etc) you know why? No heal decay, no Travel supression...hmm... -
Well Castle broke pvp and he is the one who refused to admit it was a failure and refused to put it back to i12 or at least close to it *losing heal decay and travel supression would go a looooooong way -hint hint...*
now castle is gone -so either the people filling in the indentation on the break room sofa will change it back or at least remove the ridiculous stuff - or just follow his bible and leave it all broke. -
Quote:I heard it went something like thisOriginally Posted by Alpha_Zulu
As stated before, he's passed it off to Synapse, Black Scorpion, and to a certain degree Positron.
When the lead designer posts in Castle's goodbye thread and basically says "Yeah see ya Floyd, now I gotta figure out these power spreadsheets cause I haven't the ******* clue what's going on", that doesn't sit well with me.
Point is, Castle was the one to botch PvP and was probably the only one to un botch it.
"Hey Floyd our data mining shows 30% of active pvpers have fly.."
"My work here is done! Goodbye everyone!" -
cages are too short to be effective - drop it. HP is fine as long as you use your grav powers to lock a target down - TS is so much better but the slow activation means your going to get ks'ed in zones..so I HP is better as a finisher..if you are fighting team.
Take PS - Hiber will only get you killed unless you run both and use the phase timer to your advantage (hiber then phase and jump away to avoide as/camp kills)..crush+gd is good for fliers too... -
anything wormholed is fun ....
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earth stun is perma...
elec control/fire is a good combo elec holds/immob and the kb do a lot of dmg in pvp. The gremlins are kind of stupid but do drain end pretty well. -
if it has to be a def - kin/son pb stun then drain.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Vexington
You weren't involved in organized PvP pre-i13 so that's rather odd.
I like how Con and Mac are attributed as the white-knight martyrs here. I laughed, then cried.
By the way, this thread is fat. Stfu
u must have had to much nog, I FIXED 4 UUU - happy b-lated b-day -
this game could be saved if they offered base coh/cov as sub free and charged 9.99/mo for GR and above.
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that a forum that was probably the most active has 4 threads with recent post - most of them jokes...
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Quote:Listen to the guy who tanks better than tanks and rocks a beastly pb in rv !Originally Posted by _Dawun_
People that pvp successfully with PB's do it with a variety of builds. I've never pulled ideas from this forum so I don't know if the builds you saw are viable. I'm not going to tell you that my way is the best because at the end of the day YOU have to pick the choice that fits your playstyle and pull it off. In order to help you adapt your build could you tell us the basic concept behind the build you're using now? Is it All-Human, Bi-form, or Tri-form? There are good ways to make any of those options work but they are going to look radically different in mids. We can avoid arguments over which method is best and focus on the most useful power/slotting choices for you this way.
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who are you..the only person I know that was in OS and JAL was Silent Method...and me.
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Quote:Originally Posted by theduke24
ok so i made a mind cold trller for pvp because i thoughted itd do ok, i havent gotten the chance to test it out yet, because its still only lvl 17.
so i have a few questions:
Do you think this will be an ok pvp toon?
What pools should i take?
and am i picking th right powers in this build?
this is my idea for my build:
Mind
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Mezmerize
levitate
dominate
telekinesis
Cold
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Infridgidate(or whatever its called :P)
snowstorm
arctic fog
benumb
sleet(maybe?)
heatloss
Pools
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(inherent Fitness)
Speed- Hasten SS and flurry(for damage)
Leaping- CJ JJ and Acro
Leadership- Maneuvers tactics
should i take invis pool or fighting? being as i dont usually IO my toons(but i might for this one) i want some defense to last a fight, so i think im going to go with fighting
Epic
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energy
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Powerboost(reason i want this epic)
forgot name of the blast in set, but the blast :P
temp invuln
so what do you guys think? sorry its not put in mids, i dont have that downloaded on this computer yet.
i want to hear everything, if this build sucks, say so, but tell me what to change
for mind I would add confuse - don't take flurry - you want control and ranged dmg nothing that puts you in melee range. I usually say Primal for controller but I would say the psi epic for mental blast as it would be your highest ranged dmg attack and you can take the psi sheild and IW for lotg +7.5% and a kismet acc proc.
i don't remember if they removed pff from the dom epic (trollers get dom epics i think) but if not mace mastery would be a good choice too if pff was there.
i would be iffy between manuvers and assault only becuase as a troller you need the +dmg
basically you want to build for reacharge to get your debuffs up and dmg to be able to kill your target (and hp of course - get your accos). -
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