City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Auroxis

Legend

  • Posts

    1747

  • Joined

  1. Auroxis
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Desmodos View Post
    Would have been nice had you stated so, but it retrospect I should have seen the build similarities. Serves me right for reading and posting in the forums between work and dinner.
    I did actually state it, but it's not like you're the only one that made a fumble(I had JP's DA build posted twice for like 8 hours there?).
  2. Auroxis
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
    You can get up to 80% now, with the Cardiac Alpha and PVP IO. Admittedly that's only 5% more, but at these levels of resistance, each % add significantly more. Someone who wanted to push this further could also use the Gladiator (melee) sets, although of course that'd involve less room for defense. There's also Call to Arms that isn't too shabby if you happen to have a pet.
    80% is a good number, as you just need 1 orange insp to reach the cap(and receive 50% less damage).

    Edit: Just made a DM/Inv Brute build, this is what I would aim for in the long run:

    Code:
    | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1423;693;1386;HEX;|
|78DA65946D53125114C7EFB28B284AA208F804CA838A902B9B96EF72A6CC194B0A6|
|3ACA637CEA637DD894106B0C9777D869AA96FD3737D8DDE9796D5FBF0ECF95F6D1B|
|18E077EF9FFF3DF79C7BF6527AB6D227C4F365A1F55EAFDACDE6D6B5C6414BFA4BF|
|6AEB32D024288180B5B255995D25CB11B4F304C405E918F65AD29CDB5DAD3836A4D|
|36EC474ED5691D0EACD5F66443D65AE6D92058DEDFAF9A95BA943B211EAE3ABB7B2|
|DA7B6DBC7B37569D769D27F36D9918DE69E538FDFA83BDB26B6AAEC1F54B74A76B3|
|251B87C394589E3E47E2ECD5F68B32212D7C1BC05D8651010A3E212C91CD31DEB80|
|B345EA58B240D6644570A4833BA27186F5D9BF269F075C310843D08DF3B72E8F019|
|7A4973B7E8BB0DAC332EDC01CA8C341DAB1F769FBF205C29FC1F7ED277405515405|
|583A86A10550DA1AAA1A8EEDA6311C67BD27A1056F4C46990102734E94520D16B71|
|EC0C050E292934C60B3FD0A45F95D98F3267505F1ED5E651E62F720CF0B9B5F5816|
|F3E77839923E09831FF9DF1911C11152F827831041A46A06144D72895A84A253ACA|
|D9E924C5D5D2389666B1741A6BA611E1373946B8356D63049B8F22A3516494422AA|
|9BFDCF04F641C53F6B12837617C080833921146F6161F88415924548312B027614F|
|2E9168E8E20F61427568021D9A446B26D1A849742895E7FD33B38CCFAEA6E2A6113|
|783B819A411A38DA760D0A6609886619B12CB6143236771B4D922300F988CFC1C43|
|92BDA0EC8525962E5E012E038B8CB905C657FA0B30D5A363AA12BF108AAA3BC54B7|
|C2EE3C6F96DA337BD44BE432976285687B2D0A12C7A159D735A75256DD395DAEBDE|
|9FBBF8E7B2A1AE30491AC7E809D35228EDE3E0F9CD15DA1C2ED53FC9D0EEF1A1CE6|
|F021B0CEB2ADF19EB263F613FBC11721CE124E8F93B7881F37B05BC6458AF19CB11|
|FA86AFBD11747B89F17DCFF8A167FCC0333E05DDA1DA79|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
  3. Auroxis
    AV's will be painful, but Ice Armor has one advantage over all the other tanker primaries in Tin Mage's TF, where the -recharge from Chemical Burn won't hurt you.
  4. Auroxis
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Desmodos View Post
    Going back and reviewing yours, Auroxis, and John_Printemps builds and I've concluded you are all nucking futs. You've all skipped Impale and Ripper. I can't post a comparison build because I'd never play a build without Impale and Ripper. If that's what's required to obtain these numbers, I can happily say no thanks.
    I never said this is how I would build a Spines/Elec, I just tried to stay as close as possible to JP's build so a comparison could be made. And like JP said you can include Impale and Ripper and the comparative numbers won't change.

    This is why I didn't want to get into build wars on this subject, as builds are a personal thing with lots of variables, and it's hard to compare builds of different flavors.

    Also, I took the build you posted and tried to make it as comparable as possible on Spines/Elec. Again, more recharge and damage.

    Code:
    | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1430;698;1396;HEX;|
|78DA6593596F125114C7EF740669692950A47481B2B5D29632405B356E31566A620|
|20915F5CD90915ECB24534A6630519FFC0226AE4F6AB46AFD02C6E543D9457D74C1|
|33E7DCE2182621BF73CF76FFF75C6EF94E7188B1FBE799347CD1D02CAB56AD9B5AA|
|BC54D5759DBD0EBFD456E6D6A86A1B91963A1C358ADCC0DCED5B5DBBA6158B1AEB7|
|C86FF1A6C5D55583D7DBA65EAF5D3037B7CCC0E566839BBCD9560F0D4F656BCB50A|
|B2DCED71DA617CD4BFA46A3AD37377CB82A716D9D9B56436F8DACB6F4BABA6268F7|
|78ADAC596D6EDE1D034919F8BDB2B5E1D751D87C1F6305A6A409B3882373840CE2A|
|B1732254C9759128C34EB4B106288FE29C42EE44994E7927E62A9E71762E837E10F|
|62B84360B28DD7204626312E595451C44FC57E2A1EA1E2112ADE83BD5C42938B341|
|D2515A3A4699414BE81EE6E7154B78AA5FD05C4589690434CE411FBD07640B41D10|
|6DA95184BA4F51F724F41CA43C69D01E698115082988786943E69DC4731CC0DA279|
|27D6130A22CBE889177901C10130BD0C126E8EC093A7B8A0692A211A46804DFA05F|
|50880C5E936CD7541511BF8A982629DBD03D4452A4D073280DB2E917080922618AC|
|8E10A20C9226B88C415C45C15B10379E3627AE3A771F363A70867086711E97388EF|
|206C9284B1C92C6A90A14354688D8A11D25CE334D7691AE87BC88B897F416C11BBC|
|D2F119609C7110B2710B92FD85D81AAA4986C3284935D38092B45660108CD88D00C|
|85D222B40D3267C55EB30F7162738F100B8F11D92784A7846788B75E7A3CF6E1322|
|F71FB1D70A9623CEA0774E53E3287BEC227C267C40F48CFE343EAB0FC033C4744E9|
|BE4499D14524E822D2FF5D444CE93EC1CEFCBF1A7BD981663D9E428F67A9C7B3DCE|
|329F5782A8AD8163C127A06FCDDE7DAD9F5741FBC88EE3B3DD771EA7B3D49074E4F|
|1C4773D363DF1375D51CF60D875D71D8F89582502A1C7F010F99F810|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
  5. Auroxis
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ray_Ray View Post
    I get a triple stack of rage sometimes (but not for very long)
    That's a display bug, it's most likely double stacked considering your level.
  6. Auroxis
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ultrawatt View Post
    Then dont get mu.
    Mu gives you drains which work very well with Lightning Field and Power Sink. It also has the second highest DPA for an ST APP attack, which also recharges faster than Gloom(makes it just as good in no melee situations(battle maiden, blue mitos)) and costs less endurance(Useful for those long AV/GM/Pylon fights, less time using power sink=more DPS). Ball Lightning is the second most damaging AoE APP attack as well.

    It's a good choice IMO.
  7. Auroxis

    Why Elec/ Tank?

    POST-ACTION

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Comicsluvr View Post
    Wow...I've heard of players setting up for Perma Hasten, Perma Dom and so forth but stacked Rage AND Perma Energize?

    One question though: I thought the Gladiator sets only worked for PvP. Is this a PvP build or did I hear that wrong?
    All PvP IO procs/global buffs work in PvE. One exception is the Panacea proc, which gives you a heal proc in PvE and Regen in PvP.

    However, PvP IO set bonuses work differently. They give you some benefits in PvE, and all the benefits in PvP.
  8. Auroxis
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Deevian View Post
    Well just jumping in the middle of things here, let me say a few things.

    First brutes in general destroy tanks in farming.


    Second, do not purp out a farming build. Don't do it. Its counterproductive, and in all likelihood you'll be tired of farming far before you farm the 10-15 bil for the build you listed.

    Lastly, if you can't be talked out of spending that much on a farming build, make a farm specific build because even though your ss/elec brute is much faster than tank, he is is far lacking compared to a /fire build. I am actually not completely sure where you would farm, as my fire can only survive in a 54/8 fire farm while maintaining at least 40% defense and that is with his 90% fire resist.

    tl;dr
    You have a fine brute, you can farm with him in a pinch but it will never be his thing and you might want /fa brute if you want to get serious about farming.
    I agree with this. If all you want to do is farm, just get a non-purpled/pvp'd SS/FA Brute.
  9. Auroxis
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Black_Aftermath View Post
    I would prefer the second +End Proc because although I love Power Sink, it take nearly 4s to cast.
    I'd just like to comment on this. Mids is wrong on that one, Power Sink has a 2 second cast time. Also, PShifter proc doesn't give you endurance when used in attacks IIRC. I remember it giving end to the mobs instead, but maybe they changed it.

    Here's my SS/Elec/Mu build, maybe it'll give you some ideas. While I don't have Elec Fences, I use Power Sink and ST attacks(KOB, Haymaker) on the bosses instead.

    http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/downl...85FE03B84BD722

    Code:
    | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1443;707;1414;HEX;|
|78DA6593594F5A4114C76700451115AAB86FE082825CA16A9BDA2D6DD5A48D2650B|
|46DFA42088E4042815C2EB6F6A92FFD02B5495FDAA7EEED67EBF20DE8B9E73F966B|
|20617E3367FEF72C7366F65F6CFB8578755BC8BE7B957CA391BB6B362DE53B50855|
|2B556A9154F07D2AA72522ECC1D949AD523657A851013ACC9EDAB8A5246B6595766|
|2E6B99AA5AB44A53D8DA56C7AADA50C64E45152CB35CC8DD319FD5CCE0FD6A4991C|
|E32CE27BE74AD5631B275A58EFA79BA5B2E96AC72B5E8E7D59ECAD7693178BEA0F8|
|8D52B91EDAA9970B864EA299DBCF372C659E8E516631FA47A4D0BF965BA46D83706|
|518030F812CE3A32D915A374393A8F04418BE59462CCC98975A265A1E79C15F00FE|
|86E16F22EE1222253ED3C2ADDDBA2FB8F55F70FB89145DD0B9BA4E84FD69F773E02|
|5639136BD3AAE17717B10B707717D881B562CFF4263AF8EDB8BB801048C227C1471|
|23E4B30F3AD917E74FFDC03CEDF423A0E89F74DBA6AFB418D4E2C1519A4C8BA54D6|
|9EF44690C4A17870B7E200E894BEF812D327A84588057E9B58DC86B08658CA18C19|
|94B18A32DCA40BE9FC43C87F04898F20F13154E321DDA83EB7D110E732330C0418D|
|F686B1C02319EE01CBED338A97D4F1EB26A2A0B1C3074AE23E47B5A973B0DDF61F8|
|5EA171165574CDDEE446CFDD00AE035B8CF035C6EA6BC60FAE4C72AE913336CDBF0|
|5DE308214705117B388804B43385F1493A3362CEB4BB09CE26F5692C01A6030D612|
|8C3CC9E35A1EBFCAA6C4156013BA0D609DB144310CC85DC631772FA58022E3276D2|
|5F595485EE62B31E5E9785E13E8E72AFA99403FF7DA3A21BA395CDAF3FF2509D9A2|
|9FD8B545F2D0B6B4323EFBD879B7F5D8317FE2983F75CC7B03F4D0E0ADF58BEC52F|
|75CA2E7BF9DA66536FD699B3C12D7602183437FC4883DE02B96BAC537FD6F5BEE92|
|EFB882E13367F792CE12B99E588725D561D9705ADCEC68BD4394A12793D285FE03B|
|84BD722|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
  10. Auroxis
    I would only slot End Mod in the heavy drainers(Short Circuit, Power Sink, maybe Ball Lightning and Lightning Field), and rely on the Musculature end mod to fill in the rest.
  11. Auroxis

    Why Elec/ Tank?

    POST-ACTION

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Comicsluvr View Post
    What on earth could you spend 15 BILLION on for one toon? Just asking...
    I spent much less than 15 Billion, the overall market worth of the build is about 15 Billion though.


    Code:
    | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1443;707;1414;HEX;|
|78DA6593594F5A4114C76700451115AAB86FE082825CA16A9BDA2D6DD5A48D2650B|
|46DFA42088E4042815C2EB6F6A92FFD02B5495FDAA7EEED67EBF20DE8B9E73F966B|
|20617E3367FEF72C7366F65F6CFB8578755BC8BE7B957CA391BB6B362DE53B50855|
|2B556A9154F07D2AA72522ECC1D949AD523657A851013ACC9EDAB8A5246B6595766|
|2E6B99AA5AB44A53D8DA56C7AADA50C64E45152CB35CC8DD319FD5CCE0FD6A4991C|
|E32CE27BE74AD5631B275A58EFA79BA5B2E96AC72B5E8E7D59ECAD7693178BEA0F8|
|8D52B91EDAA9970B864EA299DBCF372C659E8E516631FA47A4D0BF965BA46D83706|
|518030F812CE3A32D915A374393A8F04418BE59462CCC98975A265A1E79C15F00FE|
|86E16F22EE1222253ED3C2ADDDBA2FB8F55F70FB89145DD0B9BA4E84FD69F773E02|
|5639136BD3AAE17717B10B707717D881B562CFF4263AF8EDB8BB801048C227C1471|
|23E4B30F3AD917E74FFDC03CEDF423A0E89F74DBA6AFB418D4E2C1519A4C8BA54D6|
|9EF44690C4A17870B7E200E894BEF812D327A84588057E9B58DC86B08658CA18C19|
|94B18A32DCA40BE9FC43C87F04898F20F13154E321DDA83EB7D110E732330C0418D|
|F686B1C02319EE01CBED338A97D4F1EB26A2A0B1C3074AE23E47B5A973B0DDF61F8|
|5EA171165574CDDEE446CFDD00AE035B8CF035C6EA6BC60FAE4C72AE913336CDBF0|
|5DE308214705117B388804B43385F1493A3362CEB4BB09CE26F5692C01A6030D612|
|8C3CC9E35A1EBFCAA6C4156013BA0D609DB144310CC85DC631772FA58022E3276D2|
|5F595485EE62B31E5E9785E13E8E72AFA99403FF7DA3A21BA395CDAF3FF2509D9A2|
|9FD8B545F2D0B6B4323EFBD879B7F5D8317FE2983F75CC7B03F4D0E0ADF58BEC52F|
|75CA2E7BF9DA66536FD699B3C12D7602183437FC4883DE02B96BAC537FD6F5BEE92|
|EFB882E13367F792CE12B99E588725D561D9705ADCEC68BD4394A12793D285FE03B|
|84BD722|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
  12. Auroxis
    Whooops, lol. Fixed.
  13. Auroxis
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by John_Printemps View Post
    Code:
    | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1434;692;1384;HEX;|
|78DA6D93596F125114C7EF8541CA56B6B2540A14BA50A04CA1ADCB934D959A684A4|
|24BE29B2123BDD24911C85013F5C9CFE0833EBAB5559F5D3F8C5FC1E5D5B8E09973|
|2E1483A4CDEFCEFFFECFB9E79E3353B9577633F67083F1C92B2DADD7ABD71A86D6E|
|D0AC356D19A7AC3B1DB31F483D9CDCE969D31161A6CD62BA22584BA73576FB57AB1|
|A15A16B745BB27D4B2661CD4378D3B1DC37FADBD2F0CD13E54070B77B5D369A9DB4|
|2EBEAEDA6071FAEEACDFD4378F20EB6F684D1DBD7BB4E7CAE7585D80B6C75F5867A|
|B9A53D10F58AD63B14C6FD28149483FFA76665F8EB5B591590668B3B845D44A686C|
|89A3E2E7D09586498334D4822B229C433BBB4B1BE8DFFB4305662965F84DF88337F|
|10937D448A594DE420CA4AD96D568A52284AF95FD41C453D87289B3CCB76843BEE6|
|3C20962FE15E13562F10D220F517679133B5D214B17CAD1154A74A165F039C8C71D|
|97008A956557F1E0306CB9E4962BC44DA974811C11D8F2504DCCF3190F2C80E4E51|
|C0FF40620419CF92298C717464C5DA4D82330FA6517FCD485007521405D98A22E84|
|A90BF3D40515A282146509523161594C5492832524871CA2216768C8191A728E866|
|C055F44A68A988B388BCA9BE72415B04C4BCB349D76569E32E00A586264516276AC|
|71C6459840241C888213E1077B5C668C53C684CC34E009589272D0C955BCFCEC1A6|
|19D708EDEA6F3844FCC441AA2D232713A8FD2DC3F28816101DFD63E5B20E905CC6E|
|498E6FE907667B09529E2425BF8CD27281A0125668CC45C431D8556957DF62D2957|
|784F7840F74F84744006A285291AC98426946197E92F0073F9654861F5F3F37B65B|
|1C534A63CADA98B23EA66C8F295565F831338ECA172728B25C5EC072BF9D4A9CDFC|
|0F94D5CC72FE8EBA87909CDDF4F250B7F820D9B784CED7B8470F898F95AE3553782|
|A0C86B579D667E5ADF1C596B23EB5B23EBBF0C96E6EF|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
    I just made this similar as possible build for Spines/Elec. I tried to stay as close as possible to the above Spines/DA build. It has more than sufficient levels of protection(softcapped), and more recharge and damage.

    Code:
    | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1418;685;1370;HEX;|
|78DA6593DB4E13511486F7B4532AA5851E28E7B6B41C0AC50E14502F8D0A26469A1|
|4ABDE99662C5B683296665A13F5CA173051D13B8D120F2FA0461F4A0EEAA5625DB3|
|FE0D341912F2ADBDD6BF4E7B778A0F5782423CB928B4DE2B96D96C56CA55DB6C34A|
|4ED2B9A9BB5AAF00B21E2C7BE4A515A521AEB0F6A96D54C9D7857E43D596F4A63D5|
|92D5965DAB562ED9F7B7EDC8B5FA96B465BD651C1B81D2F6B665941B526E04D95C9|
|366A356DF0CF1E16A6D73AB45A7BEE3D086B49B5BB54674B551AB1A972DF3B1AC14|
|CD664BDA8F8668A81CFDBF75A6E3BFB657940819E12933A2EB8CFE1B8C1F2182A67|
|44932B2424F031946578AF1CEAF64A2EDD384578882E86A7B1C9CF9071C31027F81|
|3F8C3DAAEE45759F175941C88348EE45562FB2C2C8DAA55E3EF4F2F85E932B26C26|
|F18D139E108F6A9AC5F0DEDC7D0490C3D89692731FB01E9BA95AE3BD919C9423E0B|
|79861AF640A7F5A0453F304191104611A1515EE090CE7D4ADC37484642241739F28|
|1C411B56D04DB0E60A321EC97C3D2395C410EBBFFA47A3135640C5D476E690EC66E|
|0265C600558FABBEF1385C47C269AF516450BDF520DE7A088F3C8147CEE2E5BDA41|
|B569D86711D23B88E34AE238DEBF845138D422746F33C914EA909B83C09344FF633|
|A6C38C4F2448A9DF47EA3C2F36BE042C02CB8CF439C6C4772EFB3BE4CCA5F14E99A|
|788EC3022546F4A6D3B8586D317E8A47BC52E25CDA856332F3934FB8A91DF015E30|
|0ACF80E78CF79435872C7DAEC03DCE2E00F380C1C8E7191F496E28B9F199879DFF0|
|27C05BE310A58244AE32EA82B5B48B36B4C777D81D378952C5E6516AF92D24FBEC0|
|76EE34C739B6A998CB537079965C9E659767CDE529E9275FB4D0D8D31D16CEAF962|
|7D90B5054EB8C1E747A6EF39DEEBB4487A71E4D1BE77BF00077038E0FC5CD0EFB4E|
|875DEAB0AFC7284BD9FF01BAE4F056|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
  14. Auroxis
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Desmodos View Post
    This conversation is going nowhere.
    Really? Honestly I would love to be proven wrong, but if you're gonna leave in the middle of it instead of replying that's a shame.

    So to sum it all up, no matter how much offense you can fit in a DA build, Elec Armor can fit more of it, thanks to its greater pool of endurance and base recharge. The extra endurance lets you get away with more mitigation from IO's too, but it won't be enough to make it better than DA's mitigation. Hence DA has more survivability potential and Elec Armor has more offensive potential.
  15. Auroxis
    Definitely Spiritual. Faster recharging Power Sink, Foot Stomp, Ball Lightning, KO Blow, and Energize is just too good to pass up.

    As for Elec Fences vs. Static Discharge, definitely go for Elec Fences. You have to move back for Static Discharge to hit the majority of the mob, and that is more troublesome than having no KD. Personally I didn't take either.

    I don't farm on specialized energy maps, so I wouldn't know that much. Freakshow maps are nice, and there's a good one in the Unai Kemen arc in PI.


    You really can't go wrong with SS/Elec, it's an amazing combo.
  16. Auroxis
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by John_Printemps View Post
    Endurance is required to exist in the game, but it is not a direct proportion to damage. Yes you need endurance to attack, but what you're failing to catch is that a */DA is, in fact, not running out of endurance like you think it is. This is where you are grasping at straws and trying to stay afloat in a sea of overwhelming evidence against your theory. You're like the Freud of this conversation. People once thought it was solid before they realized it was false.

    The investment required to sustain a DA reasonably is very little. You say you'd rather take Musculature over Cardiac or Spiritual? Fine, you can take it, that's your prerogative, but I want you to remember that you're not actually getting 45% out of that power. It adds the enhancement after you've already slotted, after you've already ED'd. You'll have to burn the shards and the time and the favors to get 29.7% (Or 21.78 if you take the Radial). Okay, congrats, you've earned your Musculature, but now you're falling behind in the recharge department because you didn't take Spiritual and I've already compensated for recharge in the DA build, you're going to really have to push those slots to cover for the loss and try and keep up. Unfortunetly, because you did this, you also started falling behind on your other options, like defense. So when you faceplant, I'll leave road markers for when you get back on your feet because you couldn't keep up.

    This is fundamentally the direction you've desired to take with this debate. You were, after all, the one who retorted "You took a blue, I took a red, now I have more damage than you." Without actually reading the entirety of that sentence. The whole of this has become a pretty asinine farce. I thought I could be generally civil about it and try and bring some reason, but, as the interwebz proves, I can't, so I'll let the dust settle where it may.
    Ok, so you're saying that yes, I can have my +31-35% damage bonus or recharge, and yes, I can have my red insp every once in a while, and you can't, because you need to keep your endurance bar up. Yet I don't do more damage? I don't need to match your levels of survivability to stay alive and deal damage.
  17. Auroxis
    Another vote for Spiritual!
  18. Auroxis
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Desmodos View Post
    Because there aren't any sets you're slotting in Spine/Elec that have 0 endurance reduction. Every Damage set and every resistance set has some endurance reduction. It's a moot point. If you wanted to discuss an SO build, there would be some validity to your concerns. On IO builds, endurance reduction slotting simply isn't relevant to damage output.
    If it isn't relevant then you wouldn't be relying on blue insps and the cardiac alpha to keep your endurance bar up.



    Quote:
    This is quite far from truth. Depending the team, buffs from can actually make all of you +damage bonuses and enhancements completely meaningless. On a TF, a single fulcrum shift can cap your damage. A few Accelerate Metabolisms or Speed Boosts can make all of your endurance reduction and recharge completely meaningless. Teaming only makes your argument sillier, not stronger.
    I don't know about you, but I don't team with kinetics and rads more than I team with a brute, tanker, and everyone else that gives mitigation and doesn't give me offense. Also, it depends on content.
  19. Auroxis
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Desmodos View Post
    There is nothing to understand. No one is disputing that endurance is required to perform attacks. It's simply not relevant.
    Why isn't it relevant? You need endurance to do damage. You need your attacks up to do damage. You need +damage to do more damage.

    Sure, you need to also be alive to do damage, but the amount of survivability you need varies a lot depending on content and teammates. Extra damage is rarely ever unnecessary, especially considering the fact that you are a scrapper.
  20. Auroxis
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Desmodos View Post
    Auroxis, from where I'm sitting, you seem to be comparing apples to oranges. I requested a build from you so a proper comparison could be done. You've chosen not to do so, which is your prerogative, but that requires nit picky side by side comparisons.

    Spines/DA (or any DA build) was capable of managing endurance before the introduction of IOs. No specific IO build or Alpha slot is required to achieve this. Players simply chose to do so for ease.

    Both Spines/DA and Spines/EL can chose Cardiac Alphas and completely ignore endurance slotting. Both would benefit from the additional resistance enhancement. Spines/Elec would remain weaker to Neg Energy and Toxic, where Spines/DA would remain weaker to Energy to a greater degree Toxic to a lesser degree. In short it's a wash.

    Both Spines/DA and Spines/Elec can chose Musculature Alpha slots. Each has a damage Aura of the same base damage. Neither has a damage boosting power in it's secondary. Both builds are subject to same damage caps and the same ED limitations. Neither would benefit fully from the damage portion unless they chose to sacrifice basic damage slotting. Both would benefit equally from portion that ignore ED. Spines/Elec would get more end drain out of Power Sink (the benefit of which would be debatable) and better movement via Lightening Reflexes. Spines/Dark would get more out of To Hit Debuff, but only if one chose Cloak of Fear.

    Both Spines/Elec and Spines/DA can chose Spiritual Alpha slots. Both would get the same amount of recharge enhancement. Before factoring in IOs, Spines/Elec would benefit more since those recharge values would stack directly with Lightening reflexes. The problem comes when both builds start stacking recharge from IOs. Due to diminishing returns, the recharge advantage of Lightening reflexes begins to dwindle. Once you've attained perma-hasten, additional recharge starts to become insignificant (not factoring in debuffs.) If you remove travel powers, Spiritual benefits Electric Armor's movement more, but once you factor in travel powers, they'd all be capped so that advantage becomes mute.


    In short, I have not seen anything presented that would lead me to believe Spines/DA or Spines/Elec has any significant advantage in damage output. When built to their strengths, both builds would be impressive AoE lawn mowing machines. At this point, I am hesitant to even accept the notion that Spines/DA has any real survival advantage over Spines/Elec. While in my hands, Spines/DA would be more survivable, but that's due more to my familiarity with Dark Armor. Anyone as well versed with Electric Armor should be able to do the same.
    The reason DA did fine before IO's was because they slotted for end reduction. It doesn't change anything. Elec can just slot for more recharge or damage that way(though there was no Elec for Scrappers before IO's).

    I'm really having a hard time figuring out why you can't understand that endurance is required to do damage, and that having to invest less in endurance gives you more options to increase your damage.
  21. Auroxis
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by John_Printemps View Post
    But your belief has no data. You think End = Damage, and it doesn't. They have the same damage potential, as they are both on the same damage modifiers, and using the same level of base damage.
    Can you do damage with no endurance?






    Quote:
    One Aoe Cycle or 20 Cycles, don't try and claim that a higher difficulty rating is changing the facts I already presented. The build I posted can run Throw Spines > Spine Burst > Fire Ball > Throw Spines, and in that cycle it'll do about 1,000 points of damage with the damage auras included. A level 54 minion has 435.70 HP. You've successfully killed it. Twice. And just to cover the bases, Lieutenants are 867.40, Bosses are 2,729.70.
    Not just mob levels, I was more referring to TF's(ITF) and ambush maps.



    Quote:
    Again, Musculature isn't benefiting pretty much any Scrapper unless you build to need it and that's a whole other kettle of fish. And as said, Spiritual or Cardiac is most likely the choice, and as said, I could have tossed Spiritual into the build I posted, but it works well enough without it, so there's no need in giving up Cardiac. And thanks to what BrandX Posted, it proves that even then, someone may feel they still need Cardiac. Just because you have Power Sink doesn't mean the build is perfect on endurance.
    How is +35% damage not benefiting you, if you have no endurance problems and you have "enough" recharge to beat a dead horse?



    Quote:
    Yes, you can get Defense on both, but if you hadn't noticed, */DA has a power in it's secondary that helps generate 6% Global, that */Elec does not. This is a highly notable aspect as it means that there's 6% that */Elec would have to struggle to account for that */DA would not. So I could use your own arguement against you and say that */Elec has to sacrifice slots in order to do what */DA is doing naturally.
    Yes, DA has more survivability potential.



    Quote:
    If you're just worried about the straggling portion of whatever is left each mob, then you don't need a chain, you just need stuff to tag the left overs. That doesn't need a "Chain", and there's plenty of single target answers to help deal a few excess points. This is neither here nor there, really.
    I was more saying that so people wouldn't skip integral ST attacks to achieve the build goals.



    Quote:
    So if you can take a Red, so can I, so why not count them in the equation? They're going to drop, they're going to be there. Difference is, taking down an occasional blue (and yes, from experience, it is only occasional), is a lot different than sucking down purples to try and maintain a defense level.
    It's simple. You used a blue, I used a red. I now have more damage than you.
  22. Auroxis
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Desmodos View Post
    You lost me BrandX. Was that build supposed to prove Auroxis point?
    It is like he said, an attempt at a Spines/Elec build. A solid one at that.

    Edit: For BrandX, What I would change about that build:

    Going for S/L is better than melee, as almost all melee attacks have an S/L components, and there are lots of ranged attacks with Lethal components as well.

    Build Up is not slotted well. Get some recharge in there.

    Fire Ball should get another slot or get Ragnarok. Throw Spines can do with 5 positron's and a recharge IO.

    Energize's slotting is a bit off, should get more recharge.


    Those are all the main things I can think of, the rest is just nitpicky.
  23. Auroxis
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by John_Printemps View Post
    Alright, Auroxis, lets seriously step back a second here and look at what's being discussed.

    You believe a Spintric is superior to a Spindle.
    No I don't. I believe Elec has more damage potential and Dark has more survivability potential.

    Quote:
    So this gives me the impression that you do not, in fact, have a working build, let alone a working model, for a Spintric, let alone one that can outperform a Spindle on any level. So I've gone ahead and worked on the finer details for you.
    No I don't have a spines/elec build sitting around.

    Quote:
    First off, "Perma-Hasten" is easily achieved by any toon with the Spiritual Alpha once you have Hasten and about 60-70% Global recharge with only two slots in Hasten, that's achievable by /everyone/ now. Endurance Sustainability, we're talking about running roughly eleven toggles, two of which on their own are going to burn .6-.8 even when slotted, so that already puts any combo into a crunch. You say you want 20% in Global +Dam? Sure, I can actually do 26% with Assault. You want us to run Musculature? No, I'm going to drop the hammer on that one, you shouldn't be running Musculature when there's so much benefit out of Spiritual or Cardiac. Flat out, no. So, with that said, I went with Cardiac, because it's part of my endurance sustainability. It also gives me a net 5% across the board for resists, so win-win. I could do Spiritual, but I don't feel the need to beat a dead horse when I can already run Throw Spines > Spine Burst > Fire Ball, and hop to the next mob with ease.
    Like I said earlier in the thread, If all you need is one AoE cycle to destroy a mob that's just your playstyle. Some people play at a higher difficulty.

    Also, you took Cardiac. The Elec doesn't need Cardiac, and could take Musculature/Spiritual for more damage.

    Quote:
    There's also something you're fundementally missing from your demands list. Defense. If you're going to take Weave, Tough, and Cloak of Darkness, well, you might as well really build for defense. So with that, you're probably going to grab Combat Jumping and Maneuvers. Lo'n'behold, 45% S/L and Melee, so now I've upped the ante.
    I intentionally left defense from IO's out. You can get defense on both DA and Elec, and we are talking about damage potential after all.

    Quote:
    As for single target chains... I am again going to have to disagree with you on this. Spindles, Spires, and Spintrics are AoE Wrecking machines, not Single Target DPS Machines, let alone the fact that any ST chain you could imagine (Which, btw, I believe is Ripper > Dark Blast > Throw Spines > Dark Blast, which completely overshadows your desire for Fireball) isn't going to be all that great in the first place when your shortest running attack from the primary does horrible damage, and the highest hitting ones, take forever to animate. So we're not doing something sustainable for damage in the first place, so I wont even bother trying to build around the idea.
    Once your AoE's kill the mobs, you will need ST attacks to get rid of the bosses(I also didn't ask for the best ST chain, just one of the best).
    Quote:
    With that having all been said:

    Code:
    | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1434;692;1384;HEX;|
|78DA6D93596F125114C7EF8541CA56B6B2540A14BA50A04CA1ADCB934D959A684A4|
|24BE29B2123BDD24911C85013F5C9CFE0833EBAB5559F5D3F8C5FC1E5D5B8E09973|
|2E1483A4CDEFCEFFFECFB9E79E3353B9577633F67083F1C92B2DADD7ABD71A86D6E|
|D0AC356D19A7AC3B1DB31F483D9CDCE969D31161A6CD62BA22584BA73576FB57AB1|
|A15A16B745BB27D4B2661CD4378D3B1DC37FADBD2F0CD13E54070B77B5D369A9DB4|
|2EBEAEDA6071FAEEACDFD4378F20EB6F684D1DBD7BB4E7CAE7585D80B6C75F5867A|
|B9A53D10F58AD63B14C6FD28149483FFA76665F8EB5B591590668B3B845D44A686C|
|89A3E2E7D09586498334D4822B229C433BBB4B1BE8DFFB4305662965F84DF88337F|
|10937D448A594DE420CA4AD96D568A52284AF95FD41C453D87289B3CCB76843BEE6|
|3C20962FE15E13562F10D220F517679133B5D214B17CAD1154A74A165F039C8C71D|
|97008A956557F1E0306CB9E4962BC44DA974811C11D8F2504DCCF3190F2C80E4E51|
|C0FF40620419CF92298C717464C5DA4D82330FA6517FCD485007521405D98A22E84|
|A90BF3D40515A282146509523161594C5492832524871CA2216768C8191A728E866|
|C055F44A68A988B388BCA9BE72415B04C4BCB349D76569E32E00A586264516276AC|
|71C6459840241C888213E1077B5C668C53C684CC34E009589272D0C955BCFCEC1A6|
|19D708EDEA6F3844FCC441AA2D232713A8FD2DC3F28816101DFD63E5B20E905CC6E|
|498E6FE907667B09529E2425BF8CD27281A0125668CC45C431D8556957DF62D2957|
|784F7840F74F84744006A285291AC98426946197E92F0073F9654861F5F3F37B65B|
|1C534A63CADA98B23EA66C8F295565F831338ECA172728B25C5EC072BF9D4A9CDFC|
|0F94D5CC72FE8EBA87909CDDF4F250B7F820D9B784CED7B8470F898F95AE3553782|
|A0C86B579D667E5ADF1C596B23EB5B23EBBF0C96E6EF|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
    The funny part is, it's actually harder for a Spintric to achieve this kind of a build. They may have a better endurance balance, but I'm not afraid to use a necessary blue from time to time either. These guys aren't out to win the Pylon-Run of the Year award, after all. I did switch things around to try and grasp at straws for an */Elec version, but S/L cam shy by .1% and I had to sacrifice a little Recharge and a more solid attack to get there. Dark Armor will always be at the head of the table. I may be a bit biased to say that, but the mitigation it has in the secondary, often times proffers up more solutions to the final build. This does not, however, change my opinion on each of a Spindle/Spintric/Spire being capable of greatness. Each of the three can get to the same goal line, you'll find that it's easier with one versus the others.
    You shouldn't bring insps into the equation, as the Elec could take a red or a purple if you can take a blue(and you will need more than just a blue "from time to time").
  24. Auroxis
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Desmodos View Post
    ...because you've wasted everyone else's time with this fabricated nonsense. You don't even need to set up multiple builds. Simply post recharge and damage values you believe Spines/Elec can achieve that Spines/DA cannot.
    OK. I don't believe a Spines/DA build can have near-perma Hasten, endurance stability, have Fire Ball, have one of the best Spines ST attack chains, have over 20% in global damage bonuses(including Assault), have Musculature, without significantly sacrificing survivability(survivability powers taken and slotted appropriately, including Tough+Weave).

    I believe Spines/Elec can get closer to the above than Spines/DA can.

    Edit: If it can, Spines/Elec can likely get more procs and global damage bonuses.




    Quote:
    All I have asked is that you validate your statements. They are inconsistent with my understanding of CoX mechanics, Electric Armor game play and Dark Armor game play. I'm not above learning new things but you need to back up your claims.

    A ceiling would be the highest value a build can obtain. By virtue of being both scrappers, Spines/Elec has the same caps as Spines/DA.

    For all scrappers, the Damage cap is 500%.

    For all archetypes, the recharge cap is 400%.

    Thus the ceiling for both is the same.
    That's only logical if it's viable or even possible to reach the recharge and damage caps with just a build.
  25. Auroxis
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Desmodos View Post
    That's debatable, but irrelevant to the conversation.



    This statement is emphatically false.




    More generic statements that do nothing to support your position.
    What is it you want me to do to make you get it? Create entire builds that have so many different variables? similar builds for two completely different powersets? What would be the point of that other than wasting my time?

    Elec Armor starts with more recharge, and the difference won't go away unless you invest in slots. Elec Armor starts with more endurance, the difference won't go away unless you invest in slots. Elec Armor can use slots to get more damage. Thus the ceiling is higher.

    Edit: Not just slots, power selections too. Assault for example.