Auroxis
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Posts
1747 -
Joined
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You're downplaying the Energy and Psychic resistance advantages, end drain immunity advantage, and don't forget Elec can drain a spawn dry with Power Sink if things get too hot.
And Energize heals more than Healing Flames through the +Regen. -
Quote:Not really.Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
Elec is squishier than fire against most things -
Elec Armor will do great. The +dam works well with its damage aura, you won't run out of endurance, and you get extra recharge so Power Siphon goes up sooner. Plus it's pretty survivable, and you can cover your weaknesses through IO's(S/L def).
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This is the current live build for my Elec/Fire tanker, it's not nearly as expensive as the one you posted. The only change I might make is give Power Sink the PShifter set instead of Stamina, and switching Tactics+Veng with BU and Power Surge.
Code:If you're dead set on spending a lot of inf, here's my pet project Elec/SS/Mu tanker build:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1436;701;1402;HEX;| |78DA7D936B53125118C7CFC2A28918222A78C11B1A82B0C268AF1B2765A646666CB| |45E54C66C7884550466974A7BD567E8457D81AEDFA37B1FA1BE4297F795F4F0FC8F| |B433CCB4C3F23BFB9CE7FCCF7339A770BC1E10E2D125A1052E574DC729EE98B5436| |9FB0A66D92A05AF9AB57BCE4CDEB2A5D3ACDB47BD4288181C8AEB725FD61C696C54| |65A9695BA5E29A7D54B7A36AB620AB521A794BDA271887AED42AD296B5A67136F06| |FD5EB5563BB21E5DE000FF356B9D2B46AE5007F6D4AB3411FC1B38F3D693B15AB11| |DE68582563CD2E3569CB82E9346987288595A2F74D90FE347A45CB2BB234C809CF0| |A435F659C4B8B36427EA19E964FECB3A9A7CCF05718E72DC6E00170C87847EA1AD4| |3D1AF43CD844CF318648D6AB64BDFF911D82EC1064DF93AC0FB29A0FF1A9303FD04| |C2F66446F84063131471DE853CE7D4BEC350C7C24E77E957BFF0EC713D806AE33E2| |F08B93C20082D406BE7ADAA6D92F8C30851F54E1075B6C1A6DE743F8C55FD13F8CE| |46F46EA94F1969684B0AF1EBA8F888E19530F18891346FA21E66893B0DA245C6185| |718B3173001C0255C6FC1143A3A047B04A8C8CB390974C11B56F04DD88A21B9368F| |9149A327591F199C21CE3B3D11263A8844E0A13AA9F13C3EC353BC2981F648C9243| |4C153B869924FC2294C5B4CA621AC5994555E2A8511CC549A08C0994F113C530A7F| |A3997E118C6486841092DDC2424C4855BC06D609791BAC3C81419515AB5A8562DE2| |A02571A6523853691CBB0C8EDD328E5D88D25952F92E219D74989141BE61723094A| |CF19A235F7E05BC64E45E00CF81678C615A9555BDC9427652EFDC2FFAD12336DD96| |1E5EB7A5ABBB4A260D1D49EA9DFBDBEA1BEC5CA6D696BFDD028C775D63D335BEEB1| |A7FF3776EAAD050E8EF6ED3229B7EFC3369DA0D341E57E5A7DF75D39FE2903E614C| |3E6664BB124C7559725D9655B7C5CB422B5D4ED7E876E4541E7F01306FE3BA| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1426;697;1394;HEX;| |78DA6593596F52411480E72E88A520D0164A658756F60BB7A536D6A5A9B64DD492A| |054DF0CB9D2118848C9E5E2F6E48B7F404D7CD17FE3AE7FC5E51FE0E19C29A581E4| |F29D3973F699A93CDF7132F66A8B49CE1B1DA3DFAF1F18DDC7DCB4558C66BBC1EC8| |CB13069EA3BFC11EFF6B9B6DBE10DCB6C37EADBE693233328762BBCC3B9561BF440| |AE5926EF36AD96F766B7C541B4B463C1513D3AEA68B51EE7872E14F7DACD96D5EE3| |69DB8DAE7460F16EEE3C52137FBAD76CFB7DB6B37B4EBE6C0E2F5CAA05E31FA1637| |5F04A0B62C7C9FDCF027C1C78636565618D3D99C8E089410A12222B68AC8E6D9087| |90713BFA1C2AA800493EF10EE223C35C417882E5174458A8090626713884814918D| |233488A7503C9B42F1548AA7523C07C573E4E4517A3D8DF80CD16D145DB63DC5C2C| |EBC243C437C0503BB486F3F953E4E79E354C537B09B213B36B30842987D07D5AC70| |9DAD49A368CE7B8403C4B91CA648C021BB440D2E52891D0F2109066E6A8DB983384| |409545E313D2F753B47DD06A8DB1875ABC354E6C554E6C96E81EC16C8CE4F76FE0C| |8E2396422810DD272AF751D3A153338F50EF4588BE280A5BD4B1D69F50E8129ED75| |05E7A83D1CEBF25BC43AC824F50923176F0833C2A6FF923611394AAC252D4B50A45| |844511611F0E2C7E1B9B5FBE85D0F7103F2063544C3E5A40573FB826482525C835B| |9802843F615715757AE624117AE102E133611A94B84D7883A244A539F6A5A4755A6| |4428123444B68030C03C27CC731BA8CA5F24AC13CA88C21AC20BD56AA25A8DAA2D6| |EC0CAC6D82FE8AD24065C5AC7AD903AF56E9274A2493AD1029D68461DBFCA61F6C4| |67B41C42B0298D3EA5599BD294A734FB539AAA2AD2824642CD8C67FC3287BF1DE3D| |7CC243AACBF272A59BA8F3D16E89914AFE13BFA33E993469F7F933E74CB8A74CBF4| |F7882DB8F4BAE8FEA1633459928D09B93A213F9890FF03977CDA31| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Quote:That's with the Geas temp active which gives you +100% recharge, so you're at 125 seconds, not 105.Originally Posted by Linea_Alba
An IO Build with Spiritual can get the Regen/Recovery Aura's down to 100-105 seconds with Spiritual Core Paragon, or 105 - 110 seconds without. The recharge cap is 100 seconds.
Green Machine Dual Emp/Electric Sample Build - This build is not intended for solo play, but to be part of a duo. This version is pure recharge to leverage PBU and Short Circuit. My preference is more of a balance between defense and recharge, while pairing it with /Sonic Blast or /Ice Blast.
Auroxis' live build has the RA's recharging in 130 seconds, and I'm quite happy with it. I sometimes get the +20% recharge base empowerment buff which helps a bit.
Edit: I suppose you will have +100% recharge in a duo, though. -
My current preferred slotting for Drain Psyche is:
Touch of the Nictus: Heal
Touch of the Nictus: Heal/Acc
Touch of the Nictus: Heal/Recharge
Efficacy Adaptor: Endmod/Acc/Recharge
Efficacy Adaptor: Endmod/Recharge
Performance Shifter: Endmod/Recharge
This gives me:
48% Accuracy
74% Endmod
92% Heal
95% Recharge
Along with +3% HP and +9% Accuracy from set bonuses. -
Quote:Mids has the wrong number for Power Sink's cast time. The actual cast time is 2 seconds.Originally Posted by Desmodos
The whole scenario is hypothetical. We're suggesting you are continuously using the AoE attack chain. You'd only do that if you had 8 or mobs, for that scenario, it's quite realistic.
Dark Regeneration actually give Dark Armor a DPs advantage.
DR has an animation time of 1.32s (Arcanatime setting)
The electric build assumes usage of Energize and Powersink, which have animation times of 1.32s and 4.092s.
During the 120 seconds that Hasten is up DR will be fired off 13.33 times. 13.33 x 1.32 = 17.6 sec. (time spent not attacking)
Energize will be used 3.5 times. (which isn't perma so the endurance values reported early were too generous) 3.5 * 1.32 = 4.72 s
Power Sink will be used 5.88 times. 5.88 * 4.092 = 24.07 s
24.07 + 4.72 = 28.79 seconds. (time spent not attacking)
Since Dark Regeneration actually does damage, the advantage goes to Dark Armor.
Again, the analysis was for AoE attack chains only. Besides, it would be more efficient for both builds to drag said Lt.s to the next spawn and continue with AoE attack chain. During Hasten Down time, both builds are adversely affected in endurance gains.
Will Electric Armor manage endurance more easily than Dark Armor, undoubtedly. That doesn't make endurance management on Dark Armor insurmountable. The advantage is in endurance management, not damage output.
Of course you won't be using it every time it's up, either. Since as you said, I'll only need to use it every 40 seconds or so to fill up my endurance bar, if I'm constantly attacking. What will you be using every 40 seconds or so to fill up your endurance bar? -
Quote:It just applies for the second time. I've gotten all of my wedding bands through Ouro.Originally Posted by Finduilas
Does that apply anytime you get it through an Ouro mission, or just if you've gotten it before? I have a few characters that skipped Striga altogether and have now leveled past that mission.
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Quote:AFAIK any wedding bands you get after the first one are "echo" versions, which give you +20% resistance for 5 minutes, as opposed to +30% resistance for 2 hours.Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
That explains the lump on the side of your head....
If that's something you want to do, please mention it as folks are gathering for TT, especially if it's something you want to lead. The nice thing, from what I understand, is that you can earn the Wedding band temp power over again once it's run out. -
Quote:I still have hasten up sooner, and there is still a difference, significant or not.Originally Posted by Desmodos
Actually I did, rather clearly. You simply chose to ignore the facts presented.
If there is sufficient recharge, to sustain the attack chain, additional recharge is irrelevant to the attack chain. It would be relevant if you achieved perma-Hasten, which your build doesn't, at that point the differences aren't significant.
Why won't you have targets around you to hit? I require 2-3 targets to fill my endurance bar, you require 10 targets to break even(and you can miss).Quote:I did not state the build would run out of endurance. I set a condition for analysis that excluded both Dark Regeneration and Powersink, for the sake of comparing apples to apples. Neither Powersink nor Dark Regeneration is guaranteed. Both require hitting targets. In those scenarios, both builds are continuously sustainable.
Minions are not that big of a factor anyway. They will be dead, seeing as you're firing your AoE's first.Quote:Since minions won't be attacking the Spines/Dark Armor, the defense values are quite comparable, before factoring in Dark Regeneration.
And yes, even with less defense than Elec, DA can be more survivable. Dark Regen is simply that awesome, and CoF's -ToHit contributes as well. Power Sink is nice, but it won't instantly drain the mob and it won't be up every mob. -
Quote:Unless you're at the softcap, it's not a wiser choice. Especially on a scrapper. And even if you focus on HP and regeneration, the HP/Sec numbers won't come close to the numbers Dark Regen can equivalently give you.Originally Posted by Desmodos
There is more to survivability than defense. At equal levels of defense, Dark Armor has the advantage in terms of survivability. That gap can be closed if Electric Armor focuses on +HP and regeneration. IMHO, that would be the wiser choice.
I posted recharge, damage, endurance stability, etc. numbers that DA can't reach and stated Elec could come closer. You've yet to prove otherwise.Quote:The potential is equivalent. Neither has an outstanding advantage in either department. Nothing presented here suggests otherwise.
I've posted a build where Elec invests more in defense than DA does and still comes out ahead in terms of endurance, damage and recharge, but not in survivability.
You've posted a build where DA invested far less in defense than my build(12%ish) in order to come closer to my offensive numbers, and stated that while you can run out of endurance in 30 seconds and I won't ever run out of endurance, it doesn't mean anything.
The potential is not equivalent. The advantages are there, though they aren't outstanding. -
Quote:Dark Armor starts with more defense, remember. Elec is already investing more in defense than DA is, with those builds.Originally Posted by Desmodos
You claim Dark Armor is more survivable than Electric Armor. That means to be 'comparable' Dark Armor would not need as much defense. I would go so far as to argue you've chosen not to build Electric Armor to it's full survivability potential for the sake of greater damage. It's an acceptable choice for either Dark Armor or Electric Armor. As John_Printemps pointed out from the onset, it's simply the players choice.
Personally, I don't see any superiority for either build.
Also, a DA built with a more offensive focus and an Elec built with a more defensive focus can be somewhat equal. I'm not arguing against that. In terms of potential, however... -
Quote:Power Sink always hits, first off(unlike Dark Regen). The Elec can attack endlessly, so while you'll have to use a blue every 30 seconds(assuming continuous attacking), I'll use a red every 30 seconds. Secondly, I see you had to lower your S/L defense by about 6% compared to mine(matters against the common ranged S/L), which shows that you had to sacrifice survivability somewhere get closer to my offense. If I were to use an Impervium instead of a Reactive, I could keep the same recovery numbers I had before while getting the Core Musculature boost instead of the Radial one(Which I only took because you had the Cardiac Radial instead of Core in the first place, idk why).Originally Posted by Desmodos
The real crux of the issue, is how long can this attack chain be maintained.
Auroxis Spines/Elec build has a net EPS of 1.619. On that build, the cost of the attack chain is 4.15 EPS.
Assuming the attack chain is run continuously and Power Sink is never used, Auroxis Spines/Elec build will run out of endurance in ~44 seconds.
On my Spines/DA build, the net EPS is 1.62. On this build, the cost of the AoE attack chain is 5.429 EPS.
Again, assuming the attack chain is run continuously and Dark Regeneration is never used, my Spines/DA build will run out of endurance in ~31 seconds.
In this area, Electric armor initially appears to have the advantage as it can maintain the AoE attack chain 13 seconds longer. The question becomes to what degree is the advantage significant? If you factor in Power Sink (assuming you have enough accuracy to reliably hit multiple targets) Spines/Elec should be able to sustain the attack chain indefinitely (not factoring Hasten downtime.) The issue will rest on the success of the Theft of the Essence: +10% endurance proc (20% chance.) On average, the proc will make the activation of Dark Regeneration free (assuming you had sufficient endurance to fire it in the first place.) On the spines/DA build I posted, DR has a recharge of 9 seconds, which gives you three chances to roll the dice and hope the proc hits enough targets to fill your end bar. This is by no means a guarantee, but at 20% per target, the very scenarios that lend to the AoE attack chain are ideal for firing off Dark Regeneration for endurance gain.
Conclusion: There is no significant advantage to damage output to Spines/Elec over Spines/Dark Armor. It is undoubtedly easier to manage endurance with Electric Armor and this will likely steer most players away from Cardiac Alpha slots (which is debatable.) Since Dark Armor requires endurance management, many players will initially gravitate towards the Cardiac Alpha slot (myself included.) That doesn't mean Dark Armor is required to utilize the Cardiac Alpha slot.
I'll also repeat what I said earlier, the differences aren't significant. Elec and DA are closely matched, with Elec geared towards more offense and DA geared towards more survivability. -
The best SM attack chain AFAIK is Seismic Smash/Stone Fist/Gloom/Stone Fist/Heavy Mallet. You might want to build around that.
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Your main reasoning is a mag 2 stun every one or two minutes, which should only be done against certain mobs? I'll pass.
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I don't think OP was talking about maximum global damage bonuses, but I could be wrong.
If you're talking about doing a lot of damage in general, Fiery Aura is the first choice. Secondary depends on what type of damage you want to do, single target or AoE damage. Super Strength gets you close to the best of both worlds. -
Two things stand out for me. You skipped both Combustion and Lightning Field, two very important aggro management tools that give you nice damage as well. Some things that seem odd... Why Aegis when you're going for S/L def? Fire/Cold isn't really that common to warrant that. I would get Reactive Armor instead, and aim for the softcap.
I went in a different direction with my Elec/Fire(positional 32.5% defense and Spiritual) but I won't really expand on that since you seem pretty set on S/L, which is pretty understandable. -
Quote:I took a look at it, It's pretty nice but I prefer mine due to the APP choices, recharge, lack of Acc in Soul Drain, and Power Sink as you stated. As for Smite, it's a good attack in terms of damage per activation(Damage divided by cast time), and I find Shadow Maul an underwhelming AoE attack. You can certainly switch them to suit your tastes though, and use Obliteration instead of ToD. You can also take Midnight Grasp instead of Smite, but you get the Immob which can hurt on some AV fights(Battle Maiden), and you won't have a lot of attacks at the low levels.Originally Posted by Lalow
Hmm seems like a pretty solid build. Have you taken a look at the build i posted up (Syntax42's Build)? One question for you Auroxis:
-Why take Smite when you are forced to get SP, wouldn't Shadow Maul be better to AoE hence hold aggro? -
Here's the one I just made, I'm not 100% pleased with it but it came out solid overall.
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Quote:For that budget I'd recommend a 32.5% positionals build like Syntax suggested. If you take Soul Mastery, your AoE -ToHit debuffs should nullify the need for purples a majority of the time. I haven't searched around for the build he posted so I'll start to cook one up.Originally Posted by Lalow
Hmm you do make a valid point. I am not looking to spend 15 Billion like some crazy people out there but maybe under a 2-3 Billion budget, but im not really sure money is not the issue atm.
Also, I'm one of those crazy people that spend 15 bil(On my Brute, it is incidently an Elec Armor character too) but I only did it because I wanted to have one of those shiny characters. -
Quote:What budget are we talking about? purples and pvp io's out of the question? I might make a build.Originally Posted by Lalow
Ya I totally agree Auroxis the synergy is all there. I just wanted to know a sample build, one with s/l and energy soft cap. I do not want to have to pop a purple to be soft cap, I mean.. I am suppose to be the tank for crying out loud
but any builds that I can take a look at would be amazing!
P.S. Thanks a ton MaelwysAlts that was an awesome explanation. Seems like I might be rolling one real soon. May I see your build that you are running atm?
Also, no shame in taking an insp to get softcapped. Your resists are pretty high, and against tough enemies you still have your -tohit. I run a one purp to softcap build on my Elec Tanker, and I rarely take a purple. I can understand wanting softcapped S/L defense(energy not so much), as that's where most of the -def debuffs come from. But with your resists and self heals you shouldn't need it that much. -
Elec/DM is a good combo with pretty good synergy:
-DM can be endurance heavy, Elec Armor has the best end management tools.
-Elec Armor's self heal has a pretty long recharge, DM has a fast recharging self heal.
-Elec Armor is resistance based, DM gives you ToHit debuffs.
-DM has very little AoE damage but +damage from Soul Drain, Elec Armor has a damage aura.
I would recommend you get either Soul or Mu as your APP choice. Get a nice AoE attack to get aggro more effectively, and get extra survivability by stacking either -ToHit or Drains. -
Good to hear you having fun playing a pretty uncommon pairing.
Best for "common teaming"? No. No tanker can be considered best for this very subjective/general definition.
Best for you? Probably, seeing as you're having fun and that's all that matters in the end. -
What's that? enlarge your epeen by 10%?
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I also think WP isn't as tough as Invuln even after IO's, though it is close. The superior resists, defense, and DDR are better than the regen in my book. However, WP gets Quick Recovery, which IMO makes the set better than Invuln offensively.