Alvan

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I've only been to PvP zones a couple of times since I9 came out. Too much time spent trying to get IOs and level another villain lol. I have heard that RV is getting stalker heavy though. Siren's was already. My sonic needs to come and help fight

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Last few times I was there it (Union RV, before my computer went kaboom on Friday or so) had virtually no stalkers around. One tops, usually none.

This, of course doesn't mean that I'll stop spamming the boards - I still have a job, which means I have plenty of angst-ridden spare time while there (here)...

I expect Dominators to be the new standard in zonal PvP by the time I get back, btw. so get to work, y'all.

*golf clap*

My PC broke down a couple of days ago, and somehow I don't feel like rebuilding it anytime soon as the weather outside is wonderful. This means I won't be back soon (unless they happen to release a client that works on old mac laptops.)

So have a great summer, see you when things get cold and depressing here in Finland.

PS. More Heroes to RV pls.

How did this work out?

Stealth edit, in response to the stealth edit by previous poster:

This is what he really said, even if he changed the wording, later-on:[ QUOTE ]
We did back alley brawler 6 times in a row

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There are some things that sound so wrong, no matter how many times you hear them.

But yeah, a big team of all rads is awesome, we had an SG summerteam of rad/rad corrs last year, and it was silly fun.

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Strangely, a blaster or two would probably be handy

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Usual bonus points for anyone helping me get Ohms killed of course.

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You do realize how much you're tempting me to volunteer for the TF? :P

Sadly I'm going to watch Death Proof at the same time the TF is, so can't join you and get us all killed horribly.

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If it takes multiple players just to nullify one surely its a good indication that something has gone horribly wrong somewhere?

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Well, I think the original post was "omg, our emp + blaster pwns your stalker", so I thought it was the way this thread worked.

Edit: and by original post, I mean Psyc's "a forted blaster hits through your defense easily.", not the real OP.

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Blaster probably would still hit through with PB'd Aim and BU, as well as fort.

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Depends how many stacked rad debuffs we're talking about.

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a forted blaster hits through your defense easily.

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Buffed by a troupe of forcefielders' and cold corruptors' shields and keeping the blast0r under stacks of rad debuffs helps against fighting the blaster wearing one fortitude.

Barbie pink pom-poms on dead stalkers, what a pretty sight in the morning...

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That is a very PRETTY POST with all that underlining and [u]italitcs and[u] bold

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[u]WOULD BE PRETTIER WITH MORE ALL-CAPS AND COLOR[u]

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Unless you're a EN stalker, Stone Brute, FF toting mastermind...

[/ QUOTE ]Holy holy holy holy water pistol, Batman. Need to clear this misunderstanding, stat.

As a player with an FF Mastermind, I have to inform that they are hardly "teh win" in PvP. Sure, they have some redeeming qualities, but there is no form of +defense that protects you from for example an /en or a /dev blaster out to get you. I can kill a small unprepared team on my Blaster or my Domi, but the Mastermind just doesn't cut it, unless the enemies are really lacking in +tohit. :/ And as all Blasters get +tohit, Scrappers have Focused Accuracy in RV, and Defenders are buffing people with random +ToHit powers (usually at least Tactics), it's a rare case to come against a team without that quality. FF doesn't get a self-heal or any sort of debuffs. The only thing they really have is the +def. And that's not much.

(also Stone Brutes are really funny when you have a character with Slow powers)

I like PvPing with stalkers. I like to hear them moan.

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Oh and no one crys about stone armour in PVP, ever.

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Except those who have it

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no, but a emp/dark should have a chance against a kat / sr. Purposely giving gimped power examples really isnt the way to try and shoot down my point of view.

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It's a way to point out that the universal model of "everyone should have a shot against everyone" has flaws in it and provoke further discussion by bringing out points that would be left out without such drastic examples.

Might also be a language barrier thing here (not native speaker), but I'm having problems figuring out what you mean by "balanced", so the example serves as a way for me to probe that out...

So to take this fight as an yet another exaterated example, would balanced mean that you should have a fair shot of beating 4 people up without them killing you?

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As for PvP, yes there will always be better people than me, I accept that. However there is a HUGE difference between them being better and casual gamers not standing a chance,

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I guess the problem here is that a Casual PvE player doesn't have understanding of things like PvP movement and teamwork, which are fundamentally different from PvE. This means that for example if you try to play as if the opponent was an AI, you actually become very predictable, which an experienced PvP player can use to his advantage.

This can result in a casual player, who hasn't grasped things like using the environment for their protection, have lessened chance versus a PvP player. But there is always a chance. It just gets infinitely smaller as the odds stack against you. 5% hit and miss probabilities are in place in every situation and all that.

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again perhaps you should re-evaluate your idea of balance because again, those casual builds you speak of, probably fall into one of the few known sets that are good in PvP.

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I don't speak of casual builds... do I? I speak of generic terms like powersets and archtypes. And not much of those either. My example of the Emp/Dark would actually be well-followed by an example of "Should the Kat/SR have much shot versus the same Emp/Dark and his buddy, the En/En Blaster"

And I didn't know there are only few known sets that are good in PvP? Sure, there are easy sets to play in PvP, like an Ice/En Blaster or Spines/Regen scrapper, but it doesn't mean a Fire/Fire Blaster or a Dark/Dark Scrapper would be any less good if played by someone who takes the time to learn and play it in a PvP situation.

PvP is about taking what you have and turning it into something that can compete against real people. I'm currently planning a PvP Offender respec for my Emp/Dark Defender, something that is not at all optimized for PvP by default.

And sorry about the incoherrent rambling, I'm at work.

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as long as you pick the "right" powers that is, which is again the point. PvP should give ALL at's a good chance against other AT's, not just certain ones in rock paper scissors.

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So correct me if I'm understanding this correctly - you're saying that my Emp/Dark Defender with 1-slotted Dark Blast should be able to take down a Katana/SR Scrapper? As pcked powers should not matter in the PvP experience?

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Other powers were missing because I rammed up my defence, but the hold still got in there.

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As the Dominator there, I was heavily buffed thanks to my constant whining on the team channel for "Forge pls". It was a basic Fire Control hold (char), slotted with 2x accuracy, 2x recharge, 2x hold duration. You were affected by some nasty debuffs and high load of endurance draining (which resulted in the toggledrop you mentioned).

Also should be mentioned that all Control set single target holds and the like have a slightly better chance to hit than normal attacks.

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How is that balanced?

its not.

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Completely agree. PvP isn't balanced on personal scale, it's rock-paper-scissors. It tends to even out in the bigger picture. For example, without the support of a team, I don't really have a shot against an SR scrapper on my Dominator unless I'm popping yellows like there is no tomorrow. I don't have any +ToHit or -Defense powers. With someone else doing the heavy lifting of making a target more vulnerable, I can do my bit. And even then, when facing off against someone backed up by an Empath, I face serious problems (well-applied Clear Mind can sometimes make a Dominator's work really hard)

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But again i'm talking about the problems faced by PvE characters. Why should someone happily playing the game, be forced to respec their character to engage in PvP because certain powers work differently?

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I'm a bit confused about the "certain powers work differently" bit, could you explain this is greater detail? (Tried reading the original post, but can't really connect to what this meant)

I'll try and comment on some random out-of-context things here.

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but the nature of CoH combat seems to be either stack holds in a team on one person

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Sadly, holds are very efficient in the game unless you happen to be very prepared for them. I think the very epitome of all this is the old Hamidon experience, where Hami was basically held to death, unable to defend it's blobby self.

In PvP, the thing is that many things give mez protection but mez resist (or was it the other way round? terms confuse me at this hour) is sparse, which basically means that if the enemy manages to stack enough holds to drop your toggles, you're burned. (Unless you're packing a bf or have a support toon with de-mez in your team) A single Dominator can stack enough magnitude to the holds with just the single target hold to bring down a Granite Tank running Rooted, which pretty much means that anything in the game can be held. The only situation that comes near to this is a group of Tsoo Yellow (or was it Green?) Ink Men all attacking with their mez at the same time during the alpha strike.

You will need outside (BFs are outside in this case) assistance in team-based PvP environment to survive the mezzes properly.

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or continually fly away as soon as you're about to lose.

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That's the classic scrapper vs. blaster dilemma - if you are a blaster (not a blapper, no melee attacks in this example) and you face against a scrapper - you have flight, he doesn't. Will you fight him from the air where you're likely to survive, or on the ground where he has the advantage.

To use this in your case - if my self heal recharges in 10 seconds and I have 5 hitpoints left and and an enemy is close to me. Should I charge at him or run away to get myself back to health? Even if it's not the most heroic thing to do, running away really helps survival.

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If you try and duel and you get ganked, you get the stock "OMG PVP IN A PVP ZONE" comments, that are frankly correct, but NOT FUN which is the point of games.

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With arena terminals at the Pocket D, the Arenas are now a few short moments away from where-ever you were fighting. If the fighting at the zones bothers you too much, take the fight to the arena, that way you can ensure the fights happen at the terms you set. And they're incredibly fun.

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reward based zones with PVP risks are here

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Exactly. If you go in, you expose yourself to the risk of getting attacked and killed in PvP. If you don't want the risk, you will have to ignore the reward as well. It's really brilliant. I love being an agent of the risk in this case.

In my ideal world, every time a farmer team set out to RV, they'd bring a pvp team with them to guard their carebear assets. That way everyone would win.

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The title says it all...

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Actually, the "21-14" bit confuses me...

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You playing that blaster gets me in a lot of trouble with our tanker!

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Ah, music to my ears.

Well, no need to worry about Jack being over-offensive. He will need a sidekick spot, but most-likely that can be arranged?

\o/ Jack Crowle, Grav/Rad/Primal troller. (or Coldest War if you want a proper toon instead of this "support" business)

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Pfft tanking scrappers ftw

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Pfft tanking blasters ftw

If you want to farm, you should bring big/powerful enough group of farmers to make people think twice before attacking you.

(stealth edit: missed OP's point)