Alvan

a +MaxHP when in domination would actually increase the survivability a lot and would fit the feeling of a dominator quite well - when they unleash their sadistic tendencies, they don't whine about small things like damage that much. Dull Pain -like thing.

A ToHit buff would be really nasty on a /thorns domi who already gets a +tohit buff and all the attacks do shedloads of -defense. Would mean that thorns would need to be rebalanced.

What they said.

BS/Regen for beginner. Has survivability and allows you to actually live long enough to learn how to move around. Downside is that you lack in ranged combat (so if someone actually has a way to keep you in range, you're pretty screwed) and are quite vulnerable to holds and other sorts of nasty mezes (except stuns).

Ice/Cold is a powerful toon, but pretty worthless if you keep getting killed before you have a shot in using your powers. Thus, get to learn the difference between PvP and PvE with a toon that can live a bit longer like the BS/Regen, and then move to a more challenging/rewarding character like ice/cold.

Just remember to try and figure out why you get killed when you do, so you can learn from the experience. You'll be dying a lot in the beginning, but that's part of the learning procedure here. And if you play Zone PvP, don't be embaraced to ask "what the heck just happened" when you get killed and have no idea why. Most people that PvP a lot are more than happy to explain to you what they did to you and if there is a remedy for it. But only if you bother to ask and don't spout abusive language at them. (Insulting one's mother is not the best way to get in good graces with someone)

inf plx.

(and grats dude)

Faceplanting 101?

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People you're attacking using travel powers.

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Using travel powers is against the rules of PvP.

You need to stand still so teh scrappors can hit you.

Well, we actually did run "courses" like that in College of War and our late villain counterpart the E.V.I.L. University at some point, but as real life started piling up we stopped for no apparent reason.

We'd most likely love to organize a few short teaching sessions again at some point, so if this kicks off and you're in need of experienced lecturers or lecturing assistants, we're more than happy to help.

Coldest War,
Archdean

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Blasters are awesome

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QFT

I'll have to skip as I'll be doing what every sensible Finn would do on a monday night - going to sauna, drinking beer and wrestling.

So no free kills for you tonight Globs

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baaah nvm, always when i say i want to pvp with my CONTROLLER who is a fire/kin, they always tell me to roll a scrapper... ill just make it into a über farming toon instead... Thanks for the Great advices

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Fire/Kin is a great PvP char, seriously. Fastest ST hold in the game, Speed Boosted Fire Imps, Slow, Enddrain, AoE Heal. Take some extra damage potential from your APP and you're more than set to do decent fighting.

One more thing: Don't roll a scrapper for PvP. Roll a Fire/Kin controller. If you want to do duels, make a Grav/Rad Troller.

(Now "they're" saying the opposite from what "they" were always saying. Aren't "they" fun.)

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Go Fire/FF trust me its great . I hold my own pretty well for a troller wiv mine. U get PFF which is a life saver, ST bubs 4 ur pets/team mates, detention field is also a useful power, dispersion bubble is great 4 mez protection and although i dnt av Force Bubble in my build i hear thats useful 2 . On the fire side ur imps shud b able 2 finish of most held foes, spammin ur ST hold/immo also helps hehe.

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(Just wait for me to level my mind/thorns Dominator up, you dirty Defense user you)

Yeah, Fire/FF is surprisinly well-prepared for PvP with the slight resistance to control effects and a nice amount of +defense.

PvP-wise, the primaries I've tried are: Mind (large amount of control, lacks quite a lot in the damage-dealing department), Fire (Good damage potential, fast-recharging ST hold, Imps) and Gravity (Good DoTs, wonderful soft control (slow) on top of the normal control, a flying pet, and neat tricks (Phase, Teleport)). Secondaries I've tested in PvP is limited to Empathy and Radiation - Empathy is for teams, Radiation rocks in Arena and if you use the toggles carefully, also in the zones.

Pretty much any AT/Powerset combo can be made into a PvP character with some adjusting. They may not work in all situations (I wouldn't dream of solo PvPing with my Empath Defender, but in teams she's highly useful), but when you find where and how they work, things fall into place.

The epitome of Blaster's communion with debt is when finally you get Rise of the Phoenix from the Fire Epics. And use it in your attack chain.

One good way to avoid this is to detoggle when the enemy runs into the spawn. if it's a neutral spawn (attacks anyone, like stuff in warburg..), it might attack the guy who had the toggle on, not you. If it's a hostile spawn to you only, it won't do anything as there is no reason for it to aggro.

It's not ok for PvP. Occationally it might work, occationally it might not. You're way too realiant on Aim and Buildup for reliable ToHit if you slot your attacks with just one Accuracy.

Other notes:

Shiver benefits incredibly from Slow enhancements.

Combat Jumping is begging for LotG: Recharge.

Hurdle might be better than Swift for a jumper.

Hasten is in a bit late, isn't it? You could switch its place with BFR. (If you're planning on stacking holds at SC, you get better results with Hasten + FR than FR + BFR)

Stimulant needs an Intred in the Empty slot

Frozen Armor is way overslotted. If you absolutely want the +Accuracy from LotG Setting, you get it with just 4 slots. Take one slot out, put it to Combat Jumping, put Kismet and LotG there.

If you're rolling a BS/Regen, you have to learn one thing before you can start PvP:ing.

It's not cheating when they don't stay next to you so you can hit them.

A BS scrapper provokes a reaction best described as "omgwtfbbq" in a squishy, making them want to stay at distance and hit you with ranged attacks, mezes and debuffs.

When that happens, remember that they're not cheating.

That being said, I pretty much agree with everyone else here on the fact that BS/Regen is a good toon to start PvP - it has pretty good survivability against most things and allows you to score stray kill here and there even without any actual skill. And even more kills when you get better at it

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Oh yeah... BUMP

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Oi, it's been only 7 hours, no need to bump it

Was fun, proved Omega as useless in real team PvP as usual, and the build I have of Coldest on test fun to play in team sits. Nothing under the sun

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You cant compare fullcrum shift to power burst, you cant compare the radiation pool, with any of the assault, controllers are in advantadage, their secondary pool, is like defenders primary, with some "real" final skills that we dont have in our assault pool.

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Exactly, you can't compare. Why on earth do you try to? The other is made for damaging, the other is to buff the damage you deal by other means. You can't think of a Dominator as a Controller, or you're off by a mile. A Dominator plays quite much like an ice/ice blaster, using a mix of assault and control, whereas a controller relies on the control for both the control and damage (and APPs if you're 41+). You shouldn't try and compare the secondaries. Period.

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Also, aid self, aid other etc... its interruptible, when you are fighting and try to use it, if you are hit, you heal nothing, and also, you need get 2 skills to heal yourself, taking in account you are an offensive AT that is targeting almost ever the opponent, the first of this 2 skills is near useless.

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Take Stimulant as the first pick, you can slot it with just one interrupt and it's still usable in team pvp. For Aid Self, slot with 3 interrupt reductions, 2 heals and a recharge. You will still get interrupted sometimes, but very rarely. (you can fire the heal while suffering from damage over time)

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They dont get the "buff" on the mezz, but when you do pvp, surely, you will be dead before you get it, domination will not be ready to stand in front of any scrapper spines with inmob, or vversus a troller with health, or the insane damage of blaster, cause you can hold them, but, you dont have the power to kill them before they recover

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This begs the quesiton, how have you slotted:

a) your holds
b) your attacks

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not to talk about break frees: I fight a troller that uses near 5 or 6 breakfrees in front of me, what I can do then? nothing. when he gives fire back I will be dead, nothing to do cause I got no defense, and my ofensive power is less than his defensive one, he put out the imps, and wait for them kill me...

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you pop 2 break frees, 3 lucks and 3 yellows, plus couple of reds, use your AoE confuse on the imps and kill him. Inspirations aren't exclusive to heroes. You can use them as well.

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Defenders, if you carely take a look, can do a damage really similar to blasters, look at one kinetics/Psi defender. For example. And also.

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If you took a look at my earlier reply, I pointed out that this was a generalist assumption about the AT and the role it is "assumed" to play, not any specific powersets. But to go there, you have a secondary without any +damage powers, don't make assumptions on the whole AT because of that. Fire and Thorns both have a nice power that gives +dmg. ice and energy secondaries have powers that increase your mez duration. It's something like playing a Empathy/Dark Defender and wondering why you can't deal damage as fast as the Kin/Psi Defender you saw earlier.

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Is true that blaster are glass canons (did you get a look into their force pool? with bubble and invulneravility?),

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Yes, been there, killed them, also have the pool on my second blaster. They have to lose the bubble in order to attack, which means you can hold them the moment they do that. Temp invulnerability is a toggle (goes away when they're held) and Force of Nature does nothing vs. Psi damage or their mez resistance. Just 2 minutes when your secondary's attacks do less damage. Hold him (powerboost is nice fried), keep spamming the ST hold on him, move behind a corner when suppression is about to kick in, avoid him for 15 seconds, continue once he's held again. Few rounds of holds and his FoN drops and he's freely killable.

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What I mean is that people with the same level, or the same skill, not comparing a newbie in pvp with an skilled veteran one, so, we talking about tactics and what to do, taking in account the other do "nothing"; kitting is not as easy as you say, the other one is faster as you, and got mezzes as you, look at stalker that almost ever will hit first and kill you with one hit, or a scrapper that will put an spine inmobilizing you, or dazing you with 1 hit, or a brute, or... you can do kitting true, but while you cast, you loose time, if this mezz, attack, dont works, you are dead, and thats so usual, cause in front of brute/tank/scrapper, your attacks can hit, but are resisted, in other way, if you hold them, you cant kill them (this is whay I was saying from the beggining) so if you cant kill them, they woke up, and got you so easily.

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At this point, I can only give you one tip. Practice. There is nothing you can't fight as a Dominator. You just need to learn what you're fighting against. Every AT and powerset combos have some weaknesses you can exploit against them, but it takes time and defeats to learn them. Also practice Kiting, a lot. Mobility is everything against Melee archtypes. Stand still and die.

Dominators aren't an easy archtype to PvP. But they aren't bad once you get the hang of it.

What other toons do you play PvP with? If you want to post your build, I can give you tips what you can do to stand up to more easier PvP builds?

If you do or don't, for starters, read and absorb this guide:

Hamibone's PvP Guide

First of all, Hammer - I agree with your views, damnit, don't put me in a defensive position where I have to argue with you

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Yes they do, both, though not from the same epic pool.

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Let me rephrase. Controllers don't get a mez resist that is activable when they're held (or was IW activable while mezed?), and they don't get double-powered (double duration yes, double efficiency, no) holds.

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Domi detoggle chances may be best of the lot but they are still nothing to shout about. I dont even remember their existence these days (I know cause I used to pvp with my EM blaster before the detoggle change) TF detoggles maybe one toggle. With luck, it could be sprint. Woop.

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Not saying it's a gift sent from god, but it can be highly effective when applied to the correct forehead. With luck it could be mez resist toggle. Woop.

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Which limits powersets like I said.

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Something everyone playing dominators in PvP agree. You pretty much need to take a certain power pool combo to play a domi properly in pvp.

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(re: defs)
Maybe you wouldnt.

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No, maybe the guy saying that domis are underpowered wouldn't. I have seen great damage builds for defs, but it's not something you assume out of the box from the AT. A specific build can do it. Just like a fire/fire dom can reach surprising high levels of damage.

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they have things like epic armors, [...], power boost+aidself etc.

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Just like Domis (Force of Nature excluded, which shouldn't be brought up as I want it on my Domi ).

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So the way you say it, I have only 1 build to do with a dom? I mean, the idea of get a doom with holds and melee damage is obsolete, veryone, almost everyone, uses the same kind of dom, just wanna be original and get something fun, but with the supresion and the spines scrapers that inmobilizes you, and the 2 hit down they give you (yes 2 hits almost and you are out) think is a bit hard.

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The problem here is that "something fun" doesn't really translate well into PvP situations where people have builds that are designed to bring down the enemy as fast as possible while surviving the fight. Dominators in PvP have very little leeway to what power pools they can pick (like filth said). From the mentioning of immob, I take you're using Flight as your travel power and don't have anything that protects you from a situation where you get immobed (like Combat Jumping or Phase Shift). This is not a Dominator-specific problem, but something that every squishy needs to think about, and should be taken into account when making the build.

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Also if you compare doms in front of trollers, with the containment power they got mor long term damage and with their second pool they got buff/debuff or heal.

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Controllers do not get mez resistance, double-powered holds or melee attacks that detoggle with high probability. The Buff/Debuff effect means they play very differently, not that they are somehow more powerful. Regarding the heal - as a Dominator, another Power Pool you need to survive is the Medicine pool. With Power Boost, Aid Self heals you to near-full health with single application.

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also I already compared to blaster so... think they are a bit unbalanced in front of the others, they got less life, less attack,

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Blasters still rule the skies when it comes to burst damage. You wouldn't expect an Defender to do as much damage as a Blaster in combat, why would you expect a Dominator to do it? Blasters are the glass cannons, they shoot hard, but die fast. Dominators on the other hand are a control class that binds down the enemy and then brings on the hurt.

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and a special power (domination) really slow to use...

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In PvP, you need to build domination using your secondaries, in opposed to PvE where both primary and secondary work equally well. Domination buildup with ranged attacks is fast as long as you keep avoiding (ie. Kiting, the first and foremost skill a Domi needs to learn, and why you should switch to Leaping pool for movement) the enemy.

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everyone says they are one of the weakest (if not the weakest) classes.

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Yes, it's one of the weakest clesses, but that doesn't mean much in a pool of 12 classes to choose from. It's maybe one of the six weaker archtypes or so.

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You talk about an skilled player using the toon (kitting, using the powers in the correct time) to control a power, a player "without brain" but if the other got some brain, usually, there is no chance.

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I think the people I have fought in RV should be insulted by that "without brain" comment, if I understood correctly what you're saying. I have fought people who I consider good PvP players and survived, won even a good number of times.

To sum up my thoughts on this: Dominators aren't an easy archtype to PvP with, but if you pay attention to your build, they're very playable against anything that's thrown at you.

And regarding your powersets, My two PvP Domis are Fire/Ice and Mind/Thorns, the third dominator I'm playing is Ice/Energy, and I'll probably do some pvp with that as well once I get it up a few levels. I find Mind very good in PvP (Fast-activating single target hold, Fast-activating ST sleep. Both which do psi damage), and the way I see it, Energy has a couple of nice things going for it in PvP - Power Boost and a toggledropper-attack that is usable in Siren's Call levels. With some fine-tuning, I don't see any reason why your toon wouldn't be viable in PvP.

Sure. Yeah. I think Dominators need a buff in PvP. Perhaps an added +tohit to Domination to fight against the pesky SR scrappers. Base damage could be increased a bit as well. And I think the holds don't last long enough. And hmm. What else.. Uhmn... NO. Doms are on the verge of needing a nerf as they are, tbh.

I have 3 Doms, 2 of them made for PvP, I have never experienced the problems you mention. In fact, to comment on few things:

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In other way, is almost imposible to hold or do nothing in front scrapper/tank/brute... you can run out of holds and did nothing.

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I have succesfully held everything from SR scrapper to a Granite Tanker running Rooted. Sure, it might be painful to get the 6 or 7 holds stacked if the enemy is +def based and you don't have any +tohit (like on a /ice dom), but very possible. A dominator should learn to kite like hell, never let the enemy be near unless you have him held.

(Hell, I can get a Stone Brute running Granite + Rooted held with my blaster. It's not really that hard.)

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In my case: did a mind/energy dom, I love the toon, but I found that it dont works as well as i thougt, seems that the same powers that blaster got (ex: total focus, bone smasher...) do less damage with the dominator.

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Yes, they do less damage. In fact, they are about 75% as effective. This means you can't use them the way you use them on a Blaster, especially as you don't get build up and aim, which would boost your burst damage to sky high numbers. On a domi, your friend is long-term damage. Get the enemy held, damage him, keep spamming holds - when the 15 second suppression period kicks in, avoid him for the 15 secs, then finish killing him. Use Power Boost to extend the time he's held, as well as Domination. Remember that after he's been held, if he doesn't fire up Acrobatics or another toggle like it he's vulnerable to knockback, which means he is affected by your secondary's secondary effect, which buys you time to survive the 15 second suppression.

But, if the devs ever give domis a boost, I will not object. I just don't think they need it.

ps. sorry about possible typos and bbroken sentences, late here, just got home from Nine Inch Nails gig.

Yeah, there is a lot of AoE crowd control going on, also Lightning Clap does stun and Thunder Strike has a 50% of stun, so combined with Oppressive Gloom it should be quite reliable in PvE.

Fury might be a problem, but will have to see about that when things start piling up. I think I prefer the idea of survival over fast fury buildup in this case.

I'm fascinated by the idea of a dark ball of fluff shooting red sparks all over, so I rolled a Elec/Dark Brute yesterday without really thinking what I want to do with it.

I'm not asking for builds at this point, but more interested in what neat things you can think you could do with it? Looking at the powers, it seems nice and AoE:y (PBAoE:y even), with some funky control from /Dark side. So, anyone with a Elec/Dark (or who has given it more thought), what should I look forward to when I start getting levels?

PS. In case you happen to run into me, the brute is called Epsilon Patient, on Union.

gz

/postcount+1

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Often the people who have high rep simply PvP a lot, they're not necessarily that difficult to kill.

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*mumbles* bloody ganking kins...

Respec into a nasty PvP build, become the scourge of the zones. It takes a long while to get and you will die a lot, but as you don't lose rep from dying, it's not that bad. All you need to do is learn to rotate your kills so that it's 10 minutes between each kill of/death from the same person so you get rep from each kill (ie. you need to think who you kill).

Use things like pillboxes and heavies to your advantage, fight dirty, pop insps. Make enemies, learn to enjoy PvP, and eventually ... forget about badge-hunting and just be at the zones.